Bike choice- racing/trackdays - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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Bike choice- racing/trackdays

SO, looks like I might have the money to pick up a race bike real soon. Now my dilemma... I dunno if I really want an SV650 or a 600.

I want a bike I can race CCS with next year and be competitive, I also need a good deal. I have a set of extra wheels, forks, exhaust, etc. for an 03/04 636 already and I really like those bikes. I could probably find a 03/04 zx6rr with a slipper clutch that would use the same parts. From what I hear though the 600 class in CCS is pretty crazy. I'm not the type of guy that likes to come in last lol (read- extremely competitive) Thoughts?
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 09:52 AM
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If you are just getting into racing, the SV would most likely be the way to go from everything I have read. The 600 is better known as the meatball clas. If you want to be competitive and safe, most likely this is the wrong class.

Many race it... but I hear it is a crash fest. Anyhow, 600s or SVs can be readily had completely race prepped as the season end approaches. The later you wait, the lower the price. Of course, if you wait too long, the selection will narrow down quickly as well.

I am sure we can get all the CCS guys to chip in here. I am just a slow old fart happy with doing track days.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 09:59 AM
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I have raced on and off the last 6 years and the most crashes are in the meat grinder class AKA novice middlewieght class. Ask anyone who races CCS or WERA and they will tell you the same thing. I have to work on Monday mornings so I opt for the lieghtwieght classes. Don't get me wrong there are still crashes in the lightwieght classes and the racing is very competitive but there are not as many lunitics in that class.

Last edited by G2G; 08-16-2006 at 10:06 AM.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
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Yea I'm in no hurry... I think I have a buyer for my 1000rr and I wasn't really expecting to sell it. Michelle is looking to sell her gsxr 1000 too and probably pick up an sv, that way I can borrow parts off her bike (lol j/k hunny).

How reliable are the motors in the SV's? I don't plan on modding the motor anything radical. Also if I do sell the 1000rr anyone here care to check out SV's with me? I really don't know what to look for in a race bike.

What are the SV's downfalls?
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 10:05 AM
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Just what everybody says. Racing SVs is still competitive, but more on the lines of fun vs. crazy. MOST (not all) racers will not pass unless both of you can keep it upright by the end of the corner. It's also a bit cheaper on tires, you can usually get 8-10 races (2 or 3 weekends) out of a set of tires. I'm ungodly slow and have a great suspension hookup so I only use one set A YEAR. I am, however, incredibly slow.

SV downfalls? Well, it's starting to get packed out there. Even amateur ranks are fast thanks to people doing track days for a couple years, then racing (before, it was pretty much opposite). They are also not as fast as the Buell XB12s, which are allowed in LW classes. You will feel the frustration of getting motored by a Buell.

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Last edited by Grover; 08-16-2006 at 10:08 AM.
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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Sweet I definitely like the sound of that! What about model years? What are the differences between the 1st and 2nd gens and what does everyone prefer?
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 10:23 AM
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Nick if you need help (with finding or questions with a SV 650) PM me and we can talk.
post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 10:41 AM
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Second gen SV's are known for crank, connecting rods and gear box issues. RRW had a good article by AOD on it. We have a 99 owned since new and I got to ride it for the first time on track last weekend and it's a blast. You don't have to buy a new bike every few years to stay competitive in the LW classes either.
The Middleweight guys can get really mean out there.
Fun bikes, easy to mantain, good all around.
But I might be a little bias.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 10:58 AM
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Get a first gen SV unless you HAVE to have fuel injection. Parts availablility, and reliablity are the benefits of 1st gen.

A few extra HP (5 I believe) and Fuel Injection is the up side to 2nd gen, but it's known to be a bit less reliable of a motor.

I've only raced lightweights so all I can say is that it is competitive and I see a good share of crashes every weekend even in Lightweights. I've never had anyone pull anything unsafe on me yet though and only had bike-to-bike contact once on a straight when we both went for the same line to get around someone and that was during practice. The grids are pretty small though. 8-14 people is the normal, sometimes up to 20 people but that seems very rare.

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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 11:20 AM Thread Starter
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How are the carbs on the 1st gen bikes? Only carburetor experience I have is with my 50's and it can be a pita

Steve I'll definitely call you up when I have cash in hand
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 11:28 AM
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Carbs are easy on a SV, set em' and forget em'.

I have 20K street miles on my SV and 3 years of trackdays, not a single problem.

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 11:36 AM
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Also if you want to wake up the bike run VP U4 race gas. I want from 67 HP to 74 HP just buy running the gas and having it jetted for the VP U4.
post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonGu
Get a first gen SV unless you HAVE to have fuel injection. Parts availablility, and reliablity are the benefits of 1st gen.

A few extra HP (5 I believe) and Fuel Injection is the up side to 2nd gen, but it's known to be a bit less reliable of a motor.

I've only raced lightweights so all I can say is that it is competitive and I see a good share of crashes every weekend even in Lightweights. I've never had anyone pull anything unsafe on me yet though and only had bike-to-bike contact once on a straight when we both went for the same line to get around someone and that was during practice. The grids are pretty small though. 8-14 people is the normal, sometimes up to 20 people but that seems very rare.
when you turn expert, I will be the first to welcome you by a few well places stuffs.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 01:54 PM
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You haven't lived until you've been "sammitched" in T5. Ahhh those were the DAYS!

Good advice here. Go with the SV.

Alternatively, go with the 600 and race "up" a class (HW). At most tracks, the difference won't be noticeable. You'll spend a lot more on tires tho.

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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Rice
when you turn expert, I will be the first to welcome you by a few well places stuffs.


post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 02:23 PM
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Yet another vote for lightweight, at least while AM if you really get a craze or want to see if what everyone is saying, you can always run the SV up a class in the Middleweight and find out. Ryan Hall did that a few times and actually still placed decent even on an SV.

I would also recommend 1st gen SV's over 2nd gen, 1st gen are pretty much rock solid had two of them and both of them were absolute tanks outside of crash damage which even then they do crash well. Just not end over end.

The power difference between the Buell and SV isn't as apparent at tracks like Blackhawk but bigger tracks like Road America you will definitely notice. A few of the weak areas on SV's are brakes, and forks. I had braided lines, and forks were reworked and those two ares still show they aren't race spec. You can always swap the forks for a GSXR front end, I did this on one of mine and WOW what a difference under braking, but be warned if you do that you can no longer run in supersport.

Now once you go expert SV's start to fade, if you look at the EX front runners Ed Key, Paul James, and Brian Lacey now you start to really see the Buell difference. Ed is on an SV if you can call it that. Seriously those guys are running 15's and dipping into 14's in the lightweight class so to run at the front of EX lightweight either you better have a built SV, or the Buell or the Duc.

Having two of the same bike though is always a good idea when racing.

Last edited by lovebothkats; 08-16-2006 at 02:25 PM.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 02:27 PM
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You can get the front brakes to stop on a dime with a 19X18 Brembo and -2 steel braided lines along with some Vesrah top of the line pads.
post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Good2Go
You can get the front brakes to stop on a dime with a 19X18 Brembo and -2 steel braided lines along with some Vesrah top of the line pads.
Yeah but do they still fade? Mine use to stop good but they would fade, which was scary because you'd get your brake markers all set, then after a while they just weren't providing the same stopping power. Of course that was probably the times I ran faster lap times.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 04:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBOlsen
You haven't lived until you've been "sammitched" in T5. Ahhh those were the DAYS!

Good advice here. Go with the SV.

Alternatively, go with the 600 and race "up" a class (HW). At most tracks, the difference won't be noticeable. You'll spend a lot more on tires tho.
Racing up a class isn't so bad. I think I'm 6th right now in Amatuer GTO for the Blackhawk Farms championship. MWSS and GTU can be crash fests. After 3 weekends of racing GTO, a few of GTU, HWSS, and MWSS; MWSS definitely has the most crashes/scary moments. I'm just glad I made it through last race weekend w/o getting taken out at all. The one in June was frustrating to say the least.

Last edited by Superspud needs his med's; 08-16-2006 at 04:28 PM.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by lovebothkats
Yeah but do they still fade? Mine use to stop good but they would fade, which was scary because you'd get your brake markers all set, then after a while they just weren't providing the same stopping power. Of course that was probably the times I ran faster lap times.


No fade what so ever.
post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 05:40 PM Thread Starter
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Alright I've found a few SV's in my price range. Some modded some stock. What can I expect to pay for plastics, suspension, brakes if I buy a stocker?
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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 05:57 PM
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cheap SV

Nick. You may have seen my brother's SV at AB this past weekend. He picked it up off for $3K. The PO was a skinny white plate rider. My brother is not either. So we sent the forks to traxxion and changed the spring. Now that he is getting faster the Penske it came with is off to Matt Drucker for a rebuild. We observed CCS races before we did track days and the SV seemed like a no brainer. They were everywhere. He is very happy with his and it is proving to be cheap fun. His was jetted for 110 pump leaded race gas. It seems like a bargin at under $5 gallon

My obsevation.. Huge fun, cheap price
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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 06:18 PM
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Don't buy a stocker if you can find one built already. As a general idea of what it cost me to build up my stocker (not including price of the bike)

$650 Ohlins 2-way rear
$450 Thermosman fork job
$130 Woodcraft Clip Ons
$300 Woodcraft Rearsets
$100 SS Brake Lines
$75 Vesrah Brake Pads
$450 Godfather Bodywork
$400 Scotts Steering Damper
$400 used M4 full exhaust + power commander
$100-200 custom map (haven't done this yet)

Probably a few other bits I left out. Just upgrades alone were almost $3000. I probably could have done it for $2500 if I looked harder for used parts. I coulda had a whole race bike with all that shit already for an extra $1000.

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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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cool, thanks guys stockers are out the window.
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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 10:13 PM
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G2G, I should've went that route too late now.

NickIF, definitely don't go stock you should be able to find a race ready SV loaded up for around or under $4k ready to race. Great bikes, I'm kind of wishing I would've kept the last one and raced it along side the Mille but the past is the past.

Also the other great thing about running lightweight/SV spares are plentiful, and the people that run them are usually MORE than happy to help. Last year at Autobahn we had an entire pit area full of them. G2G, Grover, Grasshopper, and I think Vick was the other one.
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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 12:12 AM
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If you are seriously looking for a SV do these things. Put up want ads on CLSB, Chicagriders, ccsracing.com, WERA.com, Nesba.com, Sportbiketracktime.com, SVrider.com and every board you can think of. Put your cell # in the ad. At the end of this race season your phone will explode. People will practically give you a SV, they will beg you to come get it from them. On SVrider.com rite now there's a first gen for sale for 2300 bucks race prepped ready to go. There are more tips, tricks, race ad ons, secrets, suspension components, hop ups ect... for the bike than you can handle. It's a cult bike...

For example. 03 + intake cams fit in the first gen bike. Move the stock intake to the exhaust side and drop the 03 + intake in. I have all the paper work on how to set it up. 5hp. Both cams cost 200 bucks shipped. A bone stock 1st gen makes about 69 hp. Cams cost 200, drop those in you have 74. Thats on stock bore. Slap an exhaust on there for some more flow, that 3 hp. Some race gas and you are pushing 80. Find some flat slides and you are push 85+. Send the crank, rods and pistons out to get balanced, overbore the bitch 3mm over, get some head work done and you have 100hp SV. It's a sickness, be careful.

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Last edited by Grasshopper; 08-18-2006 at 12:39 AM.
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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSpud
Racing up a class isn't so bad. I think I'm 6th right now in Amatuer GTO for the Blackhawk Farms championship. MWSS and GTU can be crash fests. After 3 weekends of racing GTO, a few of GTU, HWSS, and MWSS; MWSS definitely has the most crashes/scary moments. I'm just glad I made it through last race weekend w/o getting taken out at all. The one in June was frustrating to say the least.
Good points here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good2Go
I have raced on and off the last 6 years and the most crashes are in the meat grinder class AKA novice middlewieght class. Ask anyone who races CCS or WERA and they will tell you the same thing. I have to work on Monday mornings so I opt for the lieghtwieght classes. Don't get me wrong there are still crashes in the lightwieght classes and the racing is very competitive but there are not as many lunitics in that class.
Steve's fast and makes a great point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wink
If you are just getting into racing, the SV would most likely be the way to go from everything I have read. The 600 is better known as the meatball clas. If you want to be competitive and safe, most likely this is the wrong class.

Many race it... but I hear it is a crash fest. Anyhow, 600s or SVs can be readily had completely race prepped as the season end approaches. The later you wait, the lower the price. Of course, if you wait too long, the selection will narrow down quickly as well.

I am sure we can get all the CCS guys to chip in here. I am just a slow old fart happy with doing track days.
I caution you from the 600 class in amateurs. It's not too bad after your first season but it's tough to learn in. Expert is safer. I run a CBR600 but I run Heavy Weight meaning I'm usually one of only maybe ten guys racing against 750's and bigger cc bikes. You are at a big disadvantage HP wise, but nothing's better than finishing top ten and beating the bigger bikes! You will really learn how to make up time in the turns and staying off the brakes!

Back to the 600 / "meatball" class. . . I've never wrecked racing with the bigger bikes but I've been choppered out of Blackhawk twice! Back in '03 I was in a coma for a week and spent a month at Rockford Hospital's trauma center. It's OK though, my medical bills were only about $120,000! ! !

SV is a great choice and definitely NOT a "beginner" bike.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. ~ Buddha
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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-18-2006, 08:32 AM
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I paid a little over a grand for my fork work AND mid grade Penske. Like Jon said, bodywork goes for around $450 to a little over $750 (sharkskinz). When modding a stock SV, the order is..
front suspension
brakes (lines and pads)
rear suspension
bodywork (plan on a windscreen as well)
exhaust (w/ carb or FI work).

The suspension and brakes are key, both those completely change the bike.

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