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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Ok track guys

How often do you replace your tires? How do you know when you dont have another track day in them? I'm currently running Power race's and am wondering wether or not to replace them?


This free pirelli deal is looking good, but I'm wondering if I should do that and keep them in reserve and maybe pick up another power race rear and keep the front and switch after I burn another rear up.




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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:12 PM
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Depends...my slow ass, even when racing at my best (years ago), I could get a season out of them. Granted, this is a low hp bike with a slow guy on it. My suspension is set up damn good so that helped. Also, a race weekend is about 30 or so laps, roughly 1/2 a track day. I usually change them early, simply because it's cheaper than crashing and decent take off's are worth more on the selling market.

If the tire is chewed up or turning shades of blue (and staying that color), you need to change them.

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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:17 PM
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I'm sure some of the faster guys will chime in here too but it depends alot on tthe pace you're running.

It looks like you're running at or near the front of B and soon to be in I.

In Intermediate I tend to get 3 days out of 208GPA's before they start to fall off. When they head south the back starts getting a little loose on turn exits and occaisionally I push the front slightly on corner entry. When that starts to happen I back off pace and run less lean angle. I start looking for replacements before the next day.

You can't cheat the tire. When you're done trusting them, get new ones. In B you can probably get a few more days out of a set but many of the crashes I've seen at the track are tire related.
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:17 PM
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Try that regular Pilot Power rear (Cheep, 100 bucks) with a PR2 front. I got 8 track days out of that combo. Its amazing the amount of life you can get out of them.

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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:20 PM
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There is no easy answer. Too many variables. You, the bike, the track, the weather, etc.

You really need to listen to your tires and replace them when they start to move around on you.

A good conservative number is every 100 laps or so, but it can be much sooner or later depending on so many factors that even that number isn't too useful.

Some say two rears to a front, but I wear out the front just as quickly as I do a rear even on my gixxer thou.

Just learn to listen to your tires and monitor traction levels. A tire that is worn out and won't grip at Autobahn will still grip very well at Putnam cause of the track grip.

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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
Try that regular Pilot Power rear (Cheep, 100 bucks) with a PR2 front. I got 8 track days out of that combo. Its amazing the amount of life you can get out of them.

isn't the PRC front preferred now over the PR2? i think i heard that from someone but i ain't too sure
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:25 PM
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Tony,

It all depends on a few variables. The rider. The speed. The suspension. The track. The riding style. as well as other variables.

Suffice it to say, if they look smooth and good, are not bluing and staying that way, then you should look for either cupping, wear bars, or oneven wear.

If none of those exist or are problems, the next step to look at is the compound. Street tires vs. race tires... makes a huge difference when it comes to heat cycling.

Suffice it to say, that even if all indicators are good, I might change tires out anyway, if I know I have too much time on them. In reality, I run my tires until they start sliding (slipping) on me. And then, I run them until they do so "unpredictably" or no longer in a smooth fashion.

Of course, I carry extra tires with me, so I can change out between sessions if I need to. At B pace (mid to front where you are), you should be able to get a few weekends out of your tires. I know that there are some riders on SVs out there, who ride fast I pace and even low A pace and might use 2-3 sets all year.

Of course, I can tell you for a fact that the "A" riders on liter bikes can roast a set of tires in a day (or weekend) if they want to. Best thing is whil eyou are learning these things is to ask your pit buddies (Ken, Ron, me... etc...). Be sure to keep a log of the tracks, temps and number of sessions you run a set of tires. This will help you learn what you can do with them.

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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:29 PM
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pilot powers are your friend! I got 7 days out of a set in advanced group on my gsxr1k and if michelle wanted to use them in I she could probably get another 1-2

Also make sure your suspension is setup. Like everyone else said, tons of variables. One thing is for sure though, I won't be switching from powers anytime soon
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:34 PM
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At fast "I" to now slow "A" pace, I get maybe 3-4 days on a rear tire on my 636 (Supercorsas & 208's). My front tires can go an extra 3-4 days because I just dont charge the corners hard enough (I guess). When the front starts going away, Ill swap the tire out.

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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickIF
pilot powers are your friend! I got 7 days out of a set in advanced group on my gsxr1k and if michelle wanted to use them in I she could probably get another 1-2

Also make sure your suspension is setup. Like everyone else said, tons of variables. One thing is for sure though, I won't be switching from powers anytime soon
If you plan on going faster than 1:20 at Blackhawk, I recommend using a different tire. At 1:20's and slower they were great, as soon as I hit 1:19, the back was stepping out out of 1, 6 gate, & 7. Predictable, but still slippery.

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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys. Ken is confusing me telling me I need to switch out to special tires for putnam. I know his pace and mine are hugely different, so I'm wondering if I need to go to the expense of special tires for certain tracks. I personally think these have another weekend in them, but I also value his input greatly, but it was making me wonder. I'm sure it may be necessary at a faster pace but I'm wondering if he's thinking I'm going faster than I am. And yes I am usually int he front half of the B group at the moment, but that's at autobahn, I haven't been to putnam yet, So I'm sure I'll be in the back for a while while I learn the track.

Thanks for chiming in guys and helping out the resident track newb




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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 12:55 PM
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Putnam has a rep as a tire shredding track. A FAST guy can go through a set there in a weekend (I've seen a set go out in a day, but Cherrypicker was horrible at suspension setup). The track is confidence inspiring with wide, sweeping corners and lots of runoff (in a few of them, literally acres). It's a fast track no doubt, I was clicking for 7th gear on the front straight with the SV and I could NEVER go through T1 fast enough. If I had grapefruit sized balls of steel I could probably just bang it into 5th and make turn 1 and turn 2. I lack those so I always end up cursing in my helmet somewhere between 1 and 2.

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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:00 PM
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Tony,

The full-on DOT race tires are more sensative to heat cycles and age than
the high-end street / track day tires like the Pilot Power are. FOr this reason
as well as faster warm-up I reccomend a tire like the Pilot Power until you
are riding at a level that you *know* you need more tire.... and this is
appearent when you get there.

Grasshoppers reccomendation of the PR2 ( Power Race ) front and Pilot
Power Rear is the next best step.... at a very fast I to low A pace you
would likely get 6+ days out of this combo.


When the tires begin to go, the back will send you a couple warnings by
stepping out a bit.... listen to the warnings and change tires. Pushing
beyond this point teaches you to (a) ride slower ) and/or (b) fall down.

Whatever tires finish your season, they are JUNK in the spring even if
you only rode 1 day on them...IMO.


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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:03 PM
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What Grover said.... he is correct on all counts.

Putnam is made of a shell-based asphalt. Translation, it cuts tires up. Hard compund recommended, medium at a minimum. If you have tires that are slippery, they typically won't be at Putnam, unless they are totally gone. Ron and I save tires that are take-offs for Putnam. They won't hold at BHF or ACC North, but will be plenty good at Putnam.

As far as getting special tires for Putnam, I have a new set saved just for Putnam, I can't wait!

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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:11 PM
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After you're done riding at Putnam, stop at Autobahn just to go around 3 or 4 laps to clean your tires back up so they look good again. I love how Autobahn cleans up tires that are starting to look shagged.

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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickIF
pilot powers are your friend! I got 7 days out of a set in advanced group on my gsxr1k and if michelle wanted to use them in I she could probably get another 1-2

Also make sure your suspension is setup. Like everyone else said, tons of variables. One thing is for sure though, I won't be switching from powers anytime soon
Pilot Powers are a great tire, but they do have their limits. Most of it is over heating the tire which will happen at a good A pace and a hot day just makes it happen faster. I can run the pilot powers to with in 4 seconds of the Power Race tire times, but they will move on you. The bad thing with the Pilot Powers is they are hard to tell when they are done just by looking at them. My last set had a good 5 day of CRing on them and looked just scrubbed in, but I over cooked them when I was at Road Atlanta in 95 degree heat. I then went straight to Road America the next day. The tires looked fine but I found out as soon as I went to a slow A pace both tires were push very bad. So bad I really did slide off the track while still on my tires going under the Billy Mitchell Bridge. They had just lost all grip from being overheated the day before. A week later after they sat they were so blue from the over heating.

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post #17 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:16 PM
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Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet Toasted Tires!

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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus-9R
The tires looked fine but I found out as soon as I went to a slow A pace both tires were push very bad. So bad I really did slide off the track while still on my tires going under the Billy Mitchell Bridge.
I am gonna have to remember this excuse next time I go agricultural.

It was the tires man!

But Ron, your tires look perfect...didn't you just change those at lunch?

Yeah man, and I hit my apex just perfect and both tires slide all the way off the track! it was crazy man!

LOL.

Just messin wich ya, Brent.

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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronhix
I am gonna have to remember this excuse next time I go agricultural.

It was the tires man!

But Ron, your tires look perfect...didn't you just change those at lunch?

Yeah man, and I hit my apex just perfect and both tires slide all the way off the track! it was crazy man!

LOL.

Just messin wich ya, Brent.
Instead of Agricultural, I like the more detailed term of "Soil Sampling"

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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:26 PM
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Blued tires don't constitute cooked tires do they? I've had blued tires that were still sticky once heated up.


*Tony, if there is a tire vendors at the event I would run those in the AM and see how they are. You could either buy there or bring them along and have the them mounted at lunch time.

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post #21 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:29 PM
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It is more Agricultural with Ron he just likes rolling thought the grass and grave traps to make sure they are safe for everyone else. A true "Soil Sampling" would be with the side of the bike acting like a bull dozer.

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post #22 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronhix
I am gonna have to remember this excuse next time I go agricultural.

It was the tires man!

But Ron, your tires look perfect...didn't you just change those at lunch?

Yeah man, and I hit my apex just perfect and both tires slide all the way off the track! it was crazy man!

LOL.

Just messin wich ya, Brent.
Well we all know you can't use this excuse because you change your tires twice a day hose boy.

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post #23 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky
Blued tires don't constitute cooked tires do they? I've had blued tires that were still sticky once heated up.


*Tony, if there is a tire vendors at the event I would run those in the AM and see how they are. You could either buy there or bring them along and have the them mounted at lunch time.
They may not be cook totally, but they have over heated. The bluing is the tire releasing the oils in the rubber that keep it from turning into a bowling ball.

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post #24 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus-9R
Well we all know you can't use this excuse because you change your tires twice a day hose boy.
Hose Boy? I wish, but alas the truth is far more humbling!

And by the way, I'm sure that sweet talk and name calling work on some dudes.

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post #25 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 01:59 PM
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I am still laughing about the "Bowling Ball" comment.

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post #26 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 07:43 PM
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Bluing is simply the natural oil in the tire coming to the surface. Scuffs off - no big deal.

Tire wear is determined by heat cycles, speed and suspension setup. There are no 'hard and fast' rules. If your suspension is not right, even a "slowbie" will trash a set of tires in an afternoon. Using tire warmers will help reduce the number of heat cycles. To a lesser degree, the manner in which your bike puts power to the ground (twin vs. inline 4) will impact tire wear. The age of the tire (as well as how it was stored) will also have a small impact.

Bottom line... racing and performance riding are 90% mental. If you are thinking about your tires... you should change them.

Also, be careful when switching between brands. Each manufacturer has its' own unique profile, which will impact ride height and therefore, suspension.

And Michelins will not give you that "warning slide".

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post #27 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 08:32 PM

 
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony
Thanks for the input guys. Ken is confusing me telling me I need to switch out to special tires for putnam. I know his pace and mine are hugely different, so I'm wondering if I need to go to the expense of special tires for certain tracks. I personally think these have another weekend in them, but I also value his input greatly, but it was making me wonder. I'm sure it may be necessary at a faster pace but I'm wondering if he's thinking I'm going faster than I am. And yes I am usually int he front half of the B group at the moment, but that's at autobahn, I haven't been to putnam yet, So I'm sure I'll be in the back for a while while I learn the track.

Thanks for chiming in guys and helping out the resident track newb
Just as balance, my opinion, run what you got. Putnam is rather tough on tires without lose of traction. Last year I did Road Atlanta, Putnam, and BHF all on the same set of tires.(pirelli diablo corsa without warmers)
Of course, you are much faster than I, so you may want to have another set ready. Good luck friend.

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post #28 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 08:51 PM
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Just wanted to say this was good reading. Answered a few questions I had in the back of my mind regarding next year's tire choices.

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post #29 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 08:55 PM
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How you found us: A friend at NESBA
           
Dammit...now I'm even more confused

Kim - What do you mean by Michelin not giving any warning? Does that mean absolutely none, or just very little?

I need a school that lets you "feel" the tires starting to slide, but not while using my bike. My lack of experience in sliding is what holds me back the most, because I'm not sure when it's coming.

Midwest Track Day CR #130
NESBA 130-Control Rider (Former Midwest Region)
STT "A" 130
Track: 2006 GSXR-750
Street: 2011 H-D Ultra Limited (Road Sofa)

www.MidwestTrackDay.com / www.MidwestTrackDay.motorsportreg.com / www.facebook.com/midwesttrackday

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post #30 of 47 (permalink) Old 08-21-2006, 09:14 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Think corn and pigs. Lots and lots of corn and pigs.
Posts: 8,030
Location: Think corn and pigs. Lots and lots of corn and pigs.
Sportbike: A Big Blue One, a threesome of Sexy Red Ones - and a Happy Yellow One!
Years Riding: Quarter century.
How you found us: I was looking for Jimmy Choo's in my shoe closet.
           
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Michelins will stick like all get-out until they're "done".

And then they won't.

If you want to experience sliding (and get VERY comfortable with it), then do American Supercamp (www.americansupercamp.com) - it'll totally blow your mind.

Kim
CCS AM #815 - the cute, fuzzy, yellow, spoiled-rotten half of Team Duc Tape!
I break stuff
Duck, duck, duck, GUZ!
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