"A" pace at ABS? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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"A" pace at ABS?

just curious, what's the approx "A" pace at autobahn South?

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post #2 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 01:52 PM
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1:34 for me, but I'm turd slow.

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post #3 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 01:57 PM
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Shoot for 1:40 as the back of the pack "A" pace.

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post #4 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 01:59 PM
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Grasshopper, do you brake or roll off at all even a little bit for the left hand sweeper, I think it's turn 4? Or just go through there WOT?

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post #5 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonGu
Shoot for 1:40 as the back of the pack "A" pace.
No shit?
I ran a coupla 1:40's on the KTM! 'Too slow to ride' indeed

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post #6 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonGu
Shoot for 1:40 as the back of the pack "A" pace.
HA HA!!! Awesome! He ran that on the KTM and NESBA wouldn't let him run that because of "Closing Speeds".

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post #7 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
HA HA!!! Awesome! He ran that on the KTM and NESBA wouldn't let him run that because of "Closing Speeds".

Kick ass Rob!
Hehe, just wait, it'll get better! I dropped it off today to get the suspension set-up. I hadn't set the sag or anything yet. I'm hoping it'll fix that front end chatter

And I did it on Pilot Powers, which I was told would be insufficient for "A"

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Last edited by Rob, Esq.; 08-29-2006 at 02:05 PM.
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post #8 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:03 PM
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Closing speeds? WTF, that KTM isn't that much slower than an SV is it? And how does it even matter, it's not like Road America where you go over a big blind hill on the front straight, the back straight isn't even that long, and everything is clearly visible

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post #9 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonGu
Grasshopper, do you brake or roll off at all even a little bit for the left hand sweeper, I think it's turn 4? Or just go through there WOT?
After turn 1 no brakes until that hard right hander on the back side of the track. In turn 4 let the bike wiggle and jiggle a little (no brakes) and I actually grab a down shift for 5, but no brakes.

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post #10 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:06 PM
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You don't even brake for 5, just downshift? Damn, you are an animal

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post #11 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
After turn 1 no brakes until that hard right hander on the back side of the track. In turn 4 let the bike wiggle and jiggle a little (no brakes) and I actually grab a down shift for 5, but no brakes.
Dude, you shoulda told me that Sat! I was still touching up the brake for a bit before 5.

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post #12 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonGu
You don't even brake for 5, just downshift? Damn, you are an animal
Yeah he is! His first time ever on the KTM, on a wet track, he was running consistent :46's, even with the front end chatter and wobbles

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post #13 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:13 PM
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Oops, didn't notice this was in the NESBA forum... probably at least 1 or 2 seconds faster then, 38's maybe... but yeah, I shouldn't even say that since it's not all about lap times

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post #14 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:17 PM
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NESBA told you pilot powers are insufficient? Funny.. they are the only tires I run. Just now did I finally order a pilot race front (still using a power in the rear).
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post #15 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:24 PM
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I have also run Pilot Power in Advanced ( rear only ).


Sounds odd to me.....

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post #16 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickIF
NESBA told you pilot powers are insufficient? Funny.. they are the only tires I run. Just now did I finally order a pilot race front (still using a power in the rear).
sho' did. Sounded weird to me too since I recall some have run <:15's at BHF on them.


edit: I should clarify that the Pilot Power comment wasn't voiced as a requirement, but rather a suggestion and as a cause for concern about me running them in "A."

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Last edited by Rob, Esq.; 08-29-2006 at 03:03 PM.
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post #17 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 03:06 PM
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It was the tires he had on at the time they were done and he was sliding them bad when I was evaluating him for the bump. We said that because we did not want to see him toss his nice 999 down the track when trying to chase faster riders on spent tires. Oh I forgot you all know what the A group is like with NESBA how stupid of me.

I told him if he came to Blackhawk I would look at him again and if he kept the same pace he had he could get the bump. There are people that are one track wonders and only run a good pace at a track they know well. So I wanted to see him ride there too. I could care less if you run race tires or street tires. It is just best to hit the A group with decent race tires or real fresh PP tires. The passes can get a little close sometimes and it is best to have a little grip in reserve.

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post #18 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus-9R
It was the tires he had on at the time they were done and he was sliding them bad when I was evaluating him for the bump. We said that because we did not want to see him toss his nice 999 down the track when trying to chase faster riders on spent tires. Oh I forgot you all know what the A group is like with NESBA how stupid of me.

I told him if he came to Blackhawk I would look at him again and if he kept the same pace he had he could get the bump. There are people that are one track wonders and only run a good pace at a track they know well. So I wanted to see him ride there too. I could care less if you run race tires or street tires. It is just best to hit the A group with decent race tires or real fresh PP tires. The passes can get a little close sometimes and it is best to have a little grip in reserve.

I didn't intent the Power thing to come off as a smartass remark, though it seems it did. I understood then, and still understand now your rationale for it.
It's better to have the extra grip and not need it than need it and not have it.

Look, I didn't intend the thread to cause hard-feelings anywhere. I was just curious to see what the times were to get an idea of where I stand regarding a bump, at least as far as times, which are not the only consideration.

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post #19 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus-9R
It was the tires he had on at the time they were done and he was sliding them bad when I was evaluating him for the bump. We said that because we did not want to see him toss his nice 999 down the track when trying to chase faster riders on spent tires. Oh I forgot you all know what the A group is like with NESBA how stupid of me.

I told him if he came to Blackhawk I would look at him again and if he kept the same pace he had he could get the bump. There are people that are one track wonders and only run a good pace at a track they know well. So I wanted to see him ride there too. I could care less if you run race tires or street tires. It is just best to hit the A group with decent race tires or real fresh PP tires. The passes can get a little close sometimes and it is best to have a little grip in reserve.
From the horse's mouth. Nice. (although it completely ruins all the bench racing in here!)

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post #20 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 04:15 PM
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Well jeez, thanks for shutting that one down, how am I suppose to keep myself entertained now the rest of the day???

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post #21 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 04:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonGu
Well jeez, thanks for shutting that one down, how am I suppose to keep myself entertained now the rest of the day???
got BF2?
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post #22 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus-9R
It was the tires he had on at the time they were done and he was sliding them bad when I was evaluating him for the bump. We said that because we did not want to see him toss his nice 999 down the track when trying to chase faster riders on spent tires. Oh I forgot you all know what the A group is like with NESBA how stupid of me.

I told him if he came to Blackhawk I would look at him again and if he kept the same pace he had he could get the bump. There are people that are one track wonders and only run a good pace at a track they know well. So I wanted to see him ride there too. I could care less if you run race tires or street tires. It is just best to hit the A group with decent race tires or real fresh PP tires. The passes can get a little close sometimes and it is best to have a little grip in reserve.

+1 very valid safety concern, thats what i like about nesba, there concern for saftey and dont have a problem letting people and telling people what they can and can not do withien nesbas safety guidlines, or from 1 rider to another rider for that matter



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post #23 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
HA HA!!! Awesome! He ran that on the KTM and NESBA wouldn't let him run that because of "Closing Speeds".

Kick ass Rob!
How would you know why or how NESBA did anything. Nick I don't know what issues you have with NESBA. As long as you keep them to yourself that is fine. Your continued passive/agressive comments with regards to NESBA is getting a bit tired.

Curious, how many track day events have you organized and put on?

When was the last time you attended a NESBA event anyway?

When was the last time you even raced?

You seem to talk alot.

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post #24 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G97
How would you know why or how NESBA did anything. Nick I don't know what issues you have with NESBA. As long as you keep them to yourself that is fine. Your continued passive/agressive comments with regards to NESBA is getting a bit tired.

Curious, how many track day events have you organized and put on?

When was the last time you attended a NESBA event anyway?

When was the last time you even raced?

You seem to talk alot.

He knows because I told him exactly what I was told when informed that I couldn't ride it after trailering it up 4.5 hours from Bloomington.

You really should put a clear statement in the manual on that one, since there's nothing there.

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Last edited by Rob, Esq.; 08-29-2006 at 05:13 PM.
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post #25 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 05:12 PM
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Wait... you were not allowed to even get on the track? Or just not allowed to ride in the Advanced group?

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post #26 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonGu
Wait... you were not allowed to even get on the track? Or just not allowed to ride in the Advanced group?
I never got the bump from I, and I was not allowed to take it on the track, period. As Grasshopper mentioned, I was told it was due to "closing speeds.'

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post #27 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
I never got the bump from I, and I was not allowed to take it on the track, period. As Grasshopper mentioned, I was told it was due to "closing speeds.'
I'm a bit confused. Were you allowed to ride in the I group?

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post #28 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G97
I'm a bit confused. Were you allowed to ride in the I group?
I was allowed to run the 999 in 'I,' but not the KTM.

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post #29 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
I was allowed to run the 999 in 'I,' but not the KTM.

OK, thanks. Iím still a bit confused on the not getting a bump to A group and how it has any effect with you not being able to ride.

As a general rule NESBA will not tech two bikes for one rider. It creates an opportunity for another rider who has not signed up to go out on the second teched bike. (it has happened). Exceptions have been made but are very rare and were under special circumstances.

As far as closing speeds, yes, it is a major concern in the A group and the I-group to a lesser degree. Even though you may be turning a certain lap time. Corner speed has a huge impact on oneís lap time thus resulting in similar lap times while at the same time still having a huge dispairency in straight away speeds.

I would agree, this needs to be spelled out more clearly in the riderís manual but in the end I would rather be cautious and take action than to do nothing. I appreciate you sharing this with me. Sorry for your inconvenience

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post #30 of 85 (permalink) Old 08-29-2006, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G97
OK, thanks. Iím still a bit confused on the not getting a bump to A group and how it has any effect with you not being able to ride.

As a general rule NESBA will not tech two bikes for one rider. It creates an opportunity for another rider who has not signed up to go out on the second teched bike. (it has happened). Exceptions have been made but are very rare and were under special circumstances.

As far as closing speeds, yes, it is a major concern in the A group and the I-group to a lesser degree. Even though you may be turning a certain lap time. Corner speed has a huge impact on oneís lap time thus resulting in similar lap times while at the same time still having a huge dispairency in straight away speeds.

I would agree, this needs to be spelled out more clearly in the riderís manual but in the end I would rather be cautious and take action than to do nothing. I appreciate you sharing this with me. Sorry for your inconvenience
The bump was responding to JonGu's comment about whether or not I could run it in 'A.' I've never ridden in 'A,' nor will I ever.

As far teching 2 bikes, that wasn't the issue. I originally planned to only ride the KTM that particular weekend, and in fact had changed the gearing to allow more top speed. The 999 was only there as a backup. Even before tech opened I was informed I couldn't ride the KTM.

As far as straightaway speeds go, I'm sure the liter bikes have a helluva lot more than the RS 250s and SV's out there. I don't see the same rationale applied.

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