190 on a 750? - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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190 on a 750?

Does anyone run a 190 rear on their 750? I've been told its a better setup than the 180 because of the bigger contact patch. Having never tried it, I'm curious to see what other 7-fiddy track riders think.

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post #2 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 04:19 PM
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doesnt the 750 have a half inch narrower rim than the 1k? I'd think this would affect contact patch size when comparing similar sized tires, no?

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post #3 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 04:20 PM
 
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Bigger contact patch...maybe. Easier or harder cornering would be my concern though.
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post #4 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 04:21 PM
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Most liter bikes on the track go down to a 180.


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post #5 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 04:24 PM
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I sense a slide the fork tubes up to compensate comment coming.




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post #6 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTony View Post
I sense a slide the fork tubes up to compensate comment coming.
I almost put it in the original post to pre-empt it

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post #7 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 05:07 PM
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Run the tire size that was intended for that particular width wheel. Anything else will mess with the handling.
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post #8 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavinRaven View Post
Run the tire size that was intended for that particular width wheel. Anything else will mess with the handling.
True, it will probably mess with the handling in a good way AND provide a larger contact patch. I say run the 190. I think all the AMA teams run 190's on their 600's.

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post #9 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 06:35 PM
 
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Put one of those really cool 330s on there with the 2 seperate chain set-up. Not only will you be cooler than everybody, you will lose about 103 RWHP.


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post #10 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronhix View Post
True, it will probably mess with the handling in a good way AND provide a larger contact patch. I say run the 190. I think all the AMA teams run 190's on their 600's.
Thats exactly what I was thinking. Were you on a 750 before you got your 1k?

I think I might experiment with a 190. I have a set of Supercorsas with the 190/55 that came off the MV. They've got ~500 street miles on them, so I'm not totally sure on using them though. I've also got a pile of 180 PR4s to burn up.

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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronhix View Post
True, it will probably mess with the handling in a good way AND provide a larger contact patch. I say run the 190. I think all the AMA teams run 190's on their 600's.
are they running a stock sized rim? pretty sure you can put a 1k rim on the 750/600 with the right spacers.

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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronhix View Post
True, it will probably mess with the handling in a good way AND provide a larger contact patch. I say run the 190. I think all the AMA teams run 190's on their 600's.
That is incorrect. Please stop giving bogus advice. Kthanxbye.

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires...206_tire_size/
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post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavinRaven View Post
That is incorrect. Please stop giving bogus advice. Kthanxbye.

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires...206_tire_size/
Have you been on a track with Hix? The man knows his shit.
Second, that test used a 190/50. No one uses those, because they flatten out and handle like shit, even on 6" rim. Finally, the test didn't change the geometry, which is a must do when changing tires size.
So do you have any firsthand knowledge, or are you just regurgitating what you've read in the rags?

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post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 10:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Have you been on a track with Hix? The man knows his shit.
Second, that test used a 190/50. No one uses those, because they flatten out and handle like shit, even on 6" rim. Finally, the test didn't change the geometry, which is a must do when changing tires size.
So do you have any firsthand knowledge, or are you just regurgitating what you've read in the rags?

Run the tire size that was intended for that particular width wheel. Anything else will mess with the handling.

I have not been on the track with Hix, nor is that relevant to the question at hand. The "test" may have used a 50mm tire, but that is irrelevant as well.

That is but one source that I chose to cite, to make my point. The whole question was about using a bigger tire than what is supposed to be used on a specific rim width. Search the internet. Im sure you'll find more information on the subject.

Oh and you'll never see me run a 190 tire on a wheel that was intended for a 180.
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post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 10:54 PM
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I vote Hix

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post #16 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 11:00 PM Thread Starter
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I vote Hix
Yeah, so do I.

Typical case of the "instant expert- just add internet!" Can't even come up with a properly done 'test'

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post #17 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah, so do I.

Typical case of the "instant expert- just add internet!" Can't even come up with a properly done 'test'
Don't know the man myself but somethin tells me he has raced a few tires in his day and that whole crew (you know who you are ya damn track heads) seems awfuly reliable when it comes to bike info

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post #18 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHeYeNNe View Post
Most liter bikes on the track go down to a 180.
Not these newer liter bikes. You need as much contact patch as possible. I tried a 180 208GPA once, it sucked even at my slow speeds. I had the rear step out on me one too many times.

I vote with HIX too.

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post #19 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-08-2007, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Yeah, so do I.

Typical case of the "instant expert- just add internet!" Can't even come up with a properly done 'test'
Not even close.
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post #20 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 12:13 AM Thread Starter
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As it turns out, the Ten Kate Honda that continues to dominate World Supersport is running *gasp* a 190 on their 5.5 rims

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Last edited by Rob, Esq.; 05-09-2007 at 12:30 AM.
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post #21 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 12:43 AM
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Run the 190 and test, worst case it doesn't work and you're out the $$$ for the mounting...if you even have to pay for it.
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post #22 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavinRaven View Post
[B]

I have not been on the track with Hix, nor is that relevant to the question at hand. The "test" may have used a 50mm tire, but that is irrelevant as well.
50mm?

you may want to do some more internet research on tire sizes
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post #23 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavinRaven View Post
That is incorrect. Please stop giving bogus advice. Kthanxbye.

http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires...206_tire_size/
Tell you what, call Safety First Racing http://www.safetyfirstracing.com/ 847-357-1319 and ask for Kevin Hanson or Jim Rashid. Ask them what size they use on their race bikes, and ask this question to them. Hix is correct, and the faster you go the more contact patch you'll need when leaning it over at higher speeds with greater lean angle.

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post #24 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
As it turns out, the Ten Kate Honda that continues to dominate World Supersport is running *gasp* a 190 on their 5.5 rims
that's interesting, and the kind of feedback I was curious about. i know the 1k has a 6", and i think the 750 is still a 5.5 but wasnt sure if they upped it with the k6 redesign.

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post #25 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil Dog View Post
Tell you what, call Safety First Racing http://www.safetyfirstracing.com/ 847-357-1319 and ask for Kevin Hanson or Jim Rashid. Ask them what size they use on their race bikes, and ask this question to them. Hix is correct, and the faster you go the more contact patch you'll need when leaning it over at higher speeds with greater lean angle.
Thanks. I'll give them a call.
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post #26 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 08:28 AM
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Here's some additional info. that you may find helpful:

The 190 size on liter bikes is definitely the way to go, because the manufacturers design the geometry around the bigger tire profile, however I think the 750's come with 180 size tires and therefore the geometry is setup as such. On 600's or 750's, if you don't have a ride height adjustable rear shock to compensate for the change in the geometry, you will be in for some eye opening experiences on the track.

For example, on my R1 last year I ran a Dunlop AMA-spec slick with the tall 195/70 size without changing my geometry setup at RA, and it made for a miserable day. It would headshake anytime the bike got up to speed down the straight. The bike turned in well, but it there was a nervous twitchiness mid-corner. I was able to tame the setup by lowering rear ride height to restore the original geometry, but the bike still had a twitchiness about it in the corners. However, the biggest advantage of tall profile rear tires was experienced on the exit of corners. There was so much confidence getting on the gas at the exit that I had never had before on my R1. I could be more aggressive with the throttle and as a result get great drives coming out of corners... that made up for all the other flaws. I could have probably played around with the suspension settings more, but it was the end of the season and ironically the end of the line for the R1 at the following track day.

Bottom line-- If you can adjust ride height in the rear and are willing to spend time chasing the right setup, the tall profile tires will pay great dividends. If you just want to ride a proven geometry without having to tinker around too much, 180's are cool... but rarely do I meet track day guys who don't live for tinkering around with their rides
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post #27 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 08:28 AM
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Pretty sure Hix knows what he's talking about

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post #28 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
Pretty sure Hix knows what he's talking about
that's not fair though, his bike is designed around the 190. We need a 750 rider to chime in.

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post #29 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 08:38 AM
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Just another note of clarification-- Most stock rear shocks don't have ride height adjustment, but if you have a newer Ohlins or Penske shock on your 750 with RHA than by all means it is worth a shot. Michelin makes a 190/55 that is not as radical as Dunlops tall 190 that really worked well for me last year too once I got the geometry all sorted out. It takes about a good 1.5 track days worth of riding to sort out the suspension to where you are happy with it. The process is sped up dramatically if you have suspension support at the track.
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post #30 of 65 (permalink) Old 05-09-2007, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikdivad View Post
Just another note of clarification-- Most stock rear shocks don't have ride height adjustment, but if you have a newer Ohlins or Penske shock on your 750 with RHA than by all means it is worth a shot. Michelin makes a 190/55 that is not as radical as Dunlops tall 190 that really worked well for me last year too once I got the geometry all sorted out. It takes about a good 1.5 track days worth of riding to sort out the suspension to where you are happy with it. The process is sped up dramatically if you have suspension support at the track.
Good stuff, thanks David
The shock on the GSXR is the stocker.

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