Best Track Upgrades - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Best Track Upgrades

I just purchased the 03 gix and will be tracking it primarily and since my zx10 was basically stock I wanted to ask what are the most important upgrades geared for the track riding. I have this list of what I plan on doing.

Windscreen changed to Double Bubble for better tucking ability.
Frame Sliders
Swingarm Spools
Stainless Front Brake Lines
Pilot Power Tires
Race Plastic. What is recommended that isn't too expensive Bobby (Mort) I remember you got a pretty good deal on your stuff what was that?

Anything else?

How important do you think rearsets are? I have never gotten that knee down yet but have only gone to one full track day with the zx10. I did manage to drag my foot one time because I didn't have it tucked properly.

Performance I don't figure I need to worry about because I won't be able to get the use out of it until I at least get into a good I pace.

Thanks everyone.
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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 04:33 PM
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pilot powers are good tires...thats what i use
other than that track time.....improve the nut that connects the handlebars to the footpegs

i wouldn't worry about rearsets as a gixxer has its pegs high enough and back enough from teh factory
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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 04:37 PM
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Brakelines get the -2 lines. Alot better than regular steel braided lines. Also get SRJL Vesrah brake pads for the front.

Get you suspension dialed in

Set of dot race tires. any brand will do
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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-13-2007, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G2G View Post
Brakelines get the -2 lines. Alot better than regular steel braided lines. Also get SRJL Vesrah brake pads for the front.

Get you suspension dialed in

Set of dot race tires. any brand will do
oh yeah suspension i forgot about
you will be suprised how well a motorcycle handles once you get you suspension set up for you
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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 12:22 AM
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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 12:31 AM
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DP Brake pads are really easy to get a hold of and are really inexpensive.

Proper springs for the front and rear suspension.

If you have that, then the rest is about getting the geometry to work right. Move the forks up or down and potentially move the rear shock length.

Lots of GSXR's are in need of more trail in the chassis. Usually has you raising up front of the bike.

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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 06:37 AM
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Sounds like you got everything you'll need except suspension set up. Take the bike to someone that knows what they're doing and get your sag dialed in, ensuring its sprung properly for you.

Vesrah or DP RDP pads are great.

Pilot Powers are more than adequate, and unless you're running warmers they're prolly the best option. DOT race tires provide great grip when warm, but they're more sensitive to heat cycling and take a little longer to get to temp than powers, especially at slower pace. The heat cycling can be an issue because you'll think the tire is OK because it has meat on it, but its rubber is no longer any good. Also, they'll wear quicker because they're a softer compound and without warmers the outer layer will get hot much quicker than the inner carcass, leading to cold tearing.

Powers will warm up quicker and last longer.

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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 07:24 AM
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E-racings off of ebay. I don't think they have an ebay store, but they are affordable* but that doesn't mean they fit easily

get some track days, then you can decide what you want
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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
The heat cycling can be an issue...
I'm just gonna stop this.

Race tires don't heat cycle. Heat cycling is a process by which the rubber becomes hard and unuseable through continued heating and cooling.

The fact is that current production radial race tires have a thin amount of rubber. Rubber is worn away as it is used for traction. When the rubber wears away, the tires ability to maintain heat in the carcass is reduced. It is reduced to a point where the tire doesn't develop grip.

This happens pretty darn quick. The best part of the race tire is the first eight to eighteen laps. It drops and continues to drop from there. At that point, the track day style tires have better consistent traction for a longer period.


If you want, I have a front and rear race take off Michelin that I'd sell for $60 shipped. That would include the race distribution only "C" front. Should be able to find Michelin Pilot Powers for around $250.

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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 08:41 AM
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post #11 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 09:00 AM
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post #12 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 09:04 AM
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Work with super dave on your suspension. He did wonders for Alex's f4i




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post #13 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 09:04 AM
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Can we stress anymore *Proper Springs* front and rear for *Your* weight?

That means fork springs and shock spring.

If you can't get in the general ball park of sag settings you will need different springs.

I think this is the most important track upgrade you buy. And you don't have to buy expensive ohlins or penske suspension. You can simply spring the stock suspension for you weight by changing the springs.

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post #14 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Dave View Post
I'm just gonna stop this.

Race tires don't heat cycle. Heat cycling is a process by which the rubber becomes hard and unuseable through continued heating and cooling.

The fact is that current production radial race tires have a thin amount of rubber. Rubber is worn away as it is used for traction. When the rubber wears away, the tires ability to maintain heat in the carcass is reduced. It is reduced to a point where the tire doesn't develop grip.

This happens pretty darn quick. The best part of the race tire is the first eight to eighteen laps. It drops and continues to drop from there. At that point, the track day style tires have better consistent traction for a longer period.


If you want, I have a front and rear race take off Michelin that I'd sell for $60 shipped. That would include the race distribution only "C" front. Should be able to find Michelin Pilot Powers for around $250.
As a slow guy, I can attest that I've heat cycled race tires before using the rubber up. I wasn't going all that fast and as a result didn't really wear the rubber much, and they did get hard before the rubber was gone or worn to a significant degree. They'd get up to temp by the end of a slow session, only to cool off without warmers. And, as slow as I was going, the rubber remained for 4-5 weekends. Hence, The tire would suffer dozens of cycles before I wore it out.

Heat cycling may not be an issue at a faster pace and/or with warmers. (thats why I said it can be an issue, not will be an issue) The OP said he'd only been to one trackday. Not everyone is a tire-eating machine and probably won't use up most of a DOT race tire in 8-18 laps.

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post #15 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 09:16 AM
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LOL I ran the same set of corsa's for the whole season (10 track days) if you go slow enough like me they last




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post #16 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
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Not everyone is a tire-eating machine and probably won't use up most of a DOT race tire in 8-18 laps.
So you're saying I'm slow if I still have plenty of rubber left on my 208GPA after two weekends at Putnam

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post #17 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 09:52 AM
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if you go slow enough like me
I don't think its possible for anyone esle to go that slow

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post #18 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone so yeah I'll stick with the Pilot powers as I do not want to get warmers until I get to be better and it's much cheaper to use the powers.
So Super Dave is the man when it comes to suspension setup. I definately need some help there as I am clueless and would love to setup something in the springtime to pay someone to setup my bike.

G2G I may have to ask more questions about those ss lines as I was just gonna pick up a set from Galfer but don't know all that much about it.

I really need to learn how to wrench more I'm gonna have to get in on those nights people donate their garage space to have people come over. Maybe I'll do that when I move and just provide the space and hopefully everyone else can provide the knowledge. lol
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post #19 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G2G View Post
Brakelines get the -2 lines. Alot better than regular steel braided lines. Also get SRJL Vesrah brake pads for the front.

Get you suspension dialed in

Set of dot race tires. any brand will do
What are -2 lines?

(not being a smart ass)

Eric
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post #20 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 11:25 AM
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I was wondering the same thing.

All I know about aftermarket lines is that there are 2 down line kits, that means two lines go down from the master. Then there is a one down, loop over kit...

I didn't like the idea of a one down loop over and got a 2down kit.
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post #21 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 11:29 AM
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I've wondered about that too. Stock is usually one down from the master, and then one short line looped over the fender to the other caliper.

But aftermarket lines are ususally 2 down from the master. Always wondered what the benifits are of the of one direct line to each caliper

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post #22 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 11:36 AM
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-2 brake lines have a smaller I.D. than a standard line. I believe this means for the same amount of lever pull, the piston in the caliber will move outward more than with using the standard lines. Anyone know their fluid dynamics a little better than myself?

The two lines kits "supposedly" give better feel at the lever than the one line down w/ loop over. In reality, I think that the two line kits are easier to bleed.

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post #23 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
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-2 brake lines have a smaller I.D. than a standard line. I believe this means for the same amount of lever pull, the piston in the caliber will move outward more than with using the standard lines. Anyone know their fluid dynamics a little better than myself?

The two lines kits "supposedly" give better feel at the lever than the one line down w/ loop over. In reality, I think that the two line kits are easier to bleed.

+1

Yes this is true. I think the best brakes I ever had was this combo

Bembo 19X18 MC
-2 braided lines
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The -2 lines are not cheap. They cost almost twice as much as regular braided lines but you will love them.
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post #24 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FullThrottleZX View Post
I'll stick with the Pilot powers as I do not want to get warmers until I get to be better and it's much cheaper to use the powers.
I was told you should not use tire warmers on street tires. Is that correct?

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post #25 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 11:47 AM
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I was told you should not use tire warmers on street tires. Is that correct?
Yes you will over heat them and they will get greasy
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post #26 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G2G View Post
Yes you will over heat them and they will get greasy
Yep. Unless you have high end warmers that you can set the temp much lower than standard Chicken Hawks. IIRC, Race tires, depending on brand work best at about 180 degrees (I think Pirelli may be an exception), which is were most tire warmers are set to. Street tires like PPs are designed to work best at much lower temps, (140ish, from what I've read) so if you throw a set of warmers that use a 180 setting, it'll be too hot and greasy.

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post #27 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 03:10 PM
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With the -2 lines, you are getting a smaller inner diameter, however that does not cause the pistons to advance any further in the caliper per lever stroke in the master cylinder. What it will do for you is give you a smaller effective area for the fluid pressure to work on inside of the lines (which assuming the lines have the same stiffness as the larger ID lines) thus resulting in a stiffer feeling system. Also, you have an overall lower fluid volume in the system, and while brake fluid is primarily incompressible, there is some compression and therefore a smaller amount of fluid will also lead to a stiffer feeling system.

In a nutshell: -2 lines provide slightly stiffer lever feel, but no addition "power" in terms of actual mechanical advantage. You put 10 lbs of force into the brake lever on a system with standard rubber lines, braided lines, or -2 braided lines, and you will get the same braking force, the only thing that will change is how much lever stroke it took to get to that braking force.

Pads, master cylinder sizing, caliper sizing, lever sizing, are pretty much the only things you can change in the brake system to change the power of the brakes.

Last edited by stive403; 11-14-2007 at 03:19 PM.
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post #28 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 03:25 PM
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Pads, master cylinder sizing, caliper sizing, lever sizing, are pretty much the only things you can change in the brake system to change the power of the brakes.

Can you explain for me how lever sizing makes a differance? I am thinking of replacing my stock levers, but except for looks, I don't know why I would.

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post #29 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 03:54 PM
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Let me somewhat rephrase, lever sizing can make a difference.

It's mechanical advantage. Lets say you have a distance of 1" from the pivot point of your master cylinder to contact point on the piston. Then lets say you typically apply the brakes with only you pointer and middle finger (for ease of calcs, say 10 lbs of force) at a distance of 3" from the pivot point. You are now applying 30 lbs of force into the piston which then through it's hydraulic sizing mechanical advantage will further multiply that force.

Now, lets say you grab out on the end of the lever at a distance of 6". You are now applying 60 lbs of force into the piston, or double the force out for the same force in and therefore a more powerful system. The trade off is more stroke as the lever has to travel twice as far.

I personally run shorty levers as I never grabbed out on the end of the lever and quite frankly by the time you put some vesrah rjl, srjl, or something simlilar, and some braided lines, you have all the braking force you can handle and we all know it's not too hard to stand a sportbike up on it's nose.

So, technically, the lever itself may or may not provide you any more power depending on where you are currently applying your force. A lot of it becomes personal preference as to how stiff you want your lever to feel.

It's a game that is governed by physics.

Master cylinder bore bigger = less power = stiffer lever
Master cylinder bore smaller = more power = softer lever
Longer lever (point of application = more power = softer lever
Shorter lever (point of application) = less power = firmer lever
Bigger or more caliper pistons (overal effective area is more= more power = softer lever
smaller or less caliper pistons (overall effective area is less) = less power = stiffer lever

The only things you can change that will effect your braking power but not the stroke of the lever are friction material, rotor material, and rotor diameter.
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post #30 of 45 (permalink) Old 11-14-2007, 03:58 PM
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Or ya coulda just said "for ergonomic reasons" but ya gotta get all technical and shit.

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