2008 CCS rule changes - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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2008 CCS rule changes

2008 ASRA/CCS Rules Committee Determinations

CCS ThunderBike
Request: Allow frames that did come with the motor
Action: Denied
The class is based around street machines and this would not be in best interest for this class

Formula 40
Request: Allow Unlimited class machines
Action: Denied
This was thoroughly researched last year and this year’s research confirms that field is reduced
with entry of unlimited machines in other organizations.

Request: Allow Heavyweight SuperBike machines
Action: Approved
SuperBike trim is more consistent with other bikes in Formula 40

Middleweight Classes
Request: Allow up to850cc water cooled twins
Action: Approved
The weight and power output of the new Ducati 848 fits within the current 3 and 4 cylinders
machines that dominate this class.

Lightweight Classes
Request: Allow 600cc 4 cylinder machines prior 1994
Action: Denied
The performance potential is too great and this leads to indexing of individual bikes which
makes class identification even more difficult

Request: Allow 800cc non-desmo twins
Action: Approved
The addition of the BMW F800 fits well with the other bikes in this class, while allowing some of
the bikes that have been outclassed in Hp by newer machines to build up to the current hp levels,
IE Hawk GT, SV650, Ninja 650

Request: Remove the larger displacement air cooled twins
Action: Denied
See Ultralight

Ultra-Light Superbike
Request: Allow 650cc water cooled twins
Action: Approved
The other bikes in this class have come up while the level of the SV650 and Ninja 650s has been
eclipsed by other machines in the Lightweight classes. This places 3 models with 70hp/350lbs

Request: Split Ultra Light into Am and Ex
Action: Approved

125GP
Request: Allow 450cc 4 stroke singles
Action: Denied
The 450 power potential far exceeds that of the 125Gp machines

Request: Allow 250 4 stroke singles
Action: Approved

Procedures
Request: Change CCS grids to set by qualifying times
Action: Denied
This is entry level racing and the addition of qualifying pressure, costs and time are not part of
the entry level concept

Request: Change CCS grids to set by points
Action: Denied
The majority of racers prefer grids set by entry date for entry level racing

Request: Count all classes towards regional championships
Action: Denied
The classes excluded from regional championships require specialized equipment or have other
classes that they can earn points in that would weight the balance of classes a single machine is
competitive towards earning regional champions in favor of select machines. Age limited classes
prohibit entry for other riders and as such cannot be included in an all encompassing regional
championship.

Request: Count only limited number of classes towards regional championships
Action: Denied
Regional Championship shows the most proficient rider in a region on several levels endurance,
competitiveness, and consistency

Request: Limit Double points round
Action: Approved
We take this under advisement when making 2008 schedules

Request: Purses in GT races
Action: Denied
The entry numbers have shown that the purse classes actually have less riders than the same
classes without a purse and reduced entry fees.

Request: Eliminate/reduce Am purse classes
Action: Denied
The amateur fields have shown that one purse paying class is supported while at the expert level
there is the opportunity to run ASRA classes for additional/higher purse classes

Number plates
Request: Fixed side for offset front numbers
Action: Denied
Manual scorers need to be able to see the numbers and if they are on the opposite side too much
time is taken to try to id bike

Request: Top mounted tail numbers
Action: Denied
The numbers are not visible to the corner marshals

Request: Option of tail or fairing mounted number plates
Action: Denied
Number location needs to be standardized, side fairing is not always viable location for numbers
due to cooling vents on some models. Tail section is the de facto standard

Request: Remove penalty for no transponder
Action: Denied
Then there is no reason for having transponders if all bikes do not have them we have to revert
to manual scoring, we are looking at alternate penalties at this time.

Request: Allow Sparking Knee/Toe Sliders
Action: Denied
The overwhelming consensus from corner marshals and those riders behind others with
“Sparkies” is that they are an unneeded distraction.

ASRA Pro Series
Request: Weight limits be combined rider and machine
Action: Denied
The addition of weight to a rider is too easy to accomplish through exchange of gear or the
addition of fluids, which the denial of could be considered a safety hazard after a race

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 09:12 PM
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boo on the starting grid.

boo on the 848 allowed in middleweight

-Mopar

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 10:35 PM
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So now my SV650 is considered an ultra-lightweight? Fuck it... I may as well just switch to racing middle or heavyweight next year. Oh well, I guess if I really wanted an SV cup I should race with WERA instead of CCS, too bad they aren't big down here in the Midwest

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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The LW racers have spoken!

from Eric over on the CCS board

Quote:
Okay official word. sorry I had a rough couple of days and just able to get to posting.

Changes to Ultra-Light Superbike have been delayed until the 2009 season. We will announce the exact wording by mid-season 2008 if not sooner.

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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
The LW racers have spoken!

from Eric over on the CCS board
The LW racers have spoken!

from Eric over on the CCS board


Quote:
Okay official word. sorry I had a rough couple of days and just able to get to posting.

Changes to Ultra-Light Superbike have been delayed until the 2009 season. We will announce the exact wording by mid-season 2008 if not sooner.

Hmmm. I'm not sure I agree with that. But it's cool. Now I have to build a 800CC stroker SV. 2500 bucks for the crank. 120 hp SV here it comes.
By the way, even in 2009 this won't effect the grids too much anyway for lightweight. There are a lot of people with SVs Superbikes out there that will not be legal for Ultralight. Also, it's not like everyone is just going to jump off the fucking bandwagon and buy a beemer.

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
The LW racers have spoken!

from Eric over on the CCS board


Quote:
Okay official word. sorry I had a rough couple of days and just able to get to posting.

Changes to Ultra-Light Superbike have been delayed until the 2009 season. We will announce the exact wording by mid-season 2008 if not sooner.

Hmmm. I'm not sure I agree with that. But it's cool. Now I have to build a 800CC stroker SV. 2500 bucks for the crank. 120 hp SV here it comes.
By the way, even in 2009 this won't effect the grids too much anyway for lightweight. There are a lot of people with SVs Superbikes out there that will not be legal for Ultralight. Also, it's not like everyone is just going to jump off the fucking bandwagon and buy a beemer.

2500? so much for SVs being cheap to race. I'd be amazed at a 120hp SV. I'd think thats too much motor for that chassis/brake/suspension package.

You need to get a 600 already and race some MW.

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
2500? so much for SVs being cheap to race. I'd be amazed at a 120hp SV. I'd think thats too much motor for that chassis/brake/suspension package.

You need to get a 600 already and race some MW.
The chassis on a SV is pretty rugid. Suspension? Huh? If its the front end that worries you people have been putting GSXR forks on them for years.

Talk to the guys who flat track race them man. That motor has a lot of potential. It just needs to be built rite.

Falicon sells 2 stroker 800cc crank shafts. One for flat track built for a lot of torque and the other for road racing.

I have too much time, money and energy to bail on the SVs. Yea, maybe I'll get a 600 to coach on for trackdays but I'm not abandoning the SV effort. My pocket book can't afford to start an entire race program over again. It's just fun for me anyway. Once road racing isn't fun I'll just go ride my dirt bike more.

I wish I had a bottemless pocket book, I really do. But for me to survive in this sport I need to be concious about where and how I pick my racing battles. I've been playing ball since 2002 and plan to keep going. That lightweight rule change won't change very much at all for us poor midwestern lightweight road racers. It's not like you are going to see every mother fucker going out and buying a beemer. That rule change will show its big difference at tracks like Daytona and Road America. At small tracks it won't much matter any.

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Last edited by Grasshopper; 12-02-2007 at 08:53 PM.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 08:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
2500? so much for SVs being cheap to race. I'd be amazed at a 120hp SV. I'd think thats too much motor for that chassis/brake/suspension package.

You need to get a 600 already and race some MW.
you raced MW?? cheater...
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSpud View Post
you raced MW?? cheater...
I never raced MW, but I probably will next season. The 749 will be done by the end of this month, and now the GSXR is gone, so its either the Duc or the Duke. (or maybe the SMR in ultralight again)

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 08:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
I never raced MW, but I probably will next season. The 749 will be done by the end of this month, and now the GSXR is gone, so its either the Duc or the Duke. (or maybe the SMR in ultralight again)
Good, now I won't feel so bad when I beat you.

j/k, good luck next year. I'm hoping I can finish paying off this year, buy a house and still afford to race next year.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSpud View Post
Good, now I won't feel so bad when I beat you.

j/k, good luck next year. I'm hoping I can finish paying off this year, buy a house and still afford to race next year.


The schedule for next season isn't even up and the trash talking has already begun!

Can you mount a camera on your bike? I could use a chase video!

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 09:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post


The schedule for next season isn't even up and the trash talking has already begun!

Can you mount a camera on your bike? I could use a chase video!
What good is 10 seconds of video from me lapping you?

http://www.ccsracing.com/results/200...%20results.htm
http://www.ccsracing.com/results/200...%20results.htm



Last edited by Superspud needs his med's; 12-02-2007 at 09:08 PM.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSpud View Post
What good is 10 seconds of video from me lapping you?

http://www.ccsracing.com/results/200...%20results.htm


My, what a vivid imagination you have!

http://ccsracing.com/results/2007/07...%20results.htm


and here too



http://ccsracing.com/results/2007/06...%20results.htm






mwhahahahahaha!


Its gonna look like this all over again



This looks like its gonna be a fun season!

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 09:16 PM
 
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http://ccsracing.com/results/2007/06...%20results.htm






mwhahahahahaha!


Its gonna look like this all over again



This looks like its gonna be a fun season!
hey I'm all about more of that. except next year with those top two gone...

Amateur GTO Pos Laps Number Bike Size Name
1 18 950 SUZ 100 DUSTIN BOYD, AURORA, IL. Pirelli,NESBA,DC-Decals,Loomis-Powerspor
2 18 192 SUZ 750 STEVE PALELLE, HARVARD, IL. Michelin,Vesrah,Suomy,Ozaukee-Suzuki
3 17 778 YAM 600 TIM ALSUM, FRIESLAND, WI. Pirelli,LP,Parts411.com,AGV,EBC,API,Silk
4 17 547 KAW 636 AJ KRAUSE, FLUSHING, NY. Paul-Krause-Const,Pirelli,SharkSkinz,Vor tex
5 17 115 APR 998 DAVE SATERMO, OCONOMOWOC, WI. Suburban-Drywall,Wild-Motorgraphics,RS-R
6 17 201 SUZ 600 BILLY FRICKSON, MINNEAPOLIS, MN. Michelin,Vortex,LP,Dyno-Jet
7 17 558 SUZ 750 EDDIE HODGES, GRAYSLAKE, IL. Michelin,AGV,HotBodies,Powerstands,Vesra
8 17 377 SUZ 750 ROBERT SIMMONS, BLOOMINGTON, IN. Motorcycle-Center-Villa-Park-IL,Michelin
9 17 771 SUZ 750 CRAIG CURTIS, FREMONT, WI. LP,Bridgestone,PitBull,Sharkskinz,Vortex
10 17 503 KAW 600 SVEN BUGGE, MENASHA, WI. SpeedTech,Hindle-Exhaust,Pirelli,Vortex,
11 17 891 HON 600 JAMES RODEFER JR, SULLIVAN, WI. Cheaddar-Mafia-Racing,Oconomowoc-Motorsp
12 17 112 DUC 998 CARLO CALDERONE, ADDISON, IL. Bridgestone,SharkSkinz,Vesrah
13 17 781 SUZ 750 TOM MCCANN, 0, WI.
14 16 936 KAW 100 ERIC LEVITH, NORMAL, IL.
15 10 99 RC5 100 CHUCK COUGHLIN, AURORA, IL. PBI-Racing,Dark-Horse-Racing,DGY-Motorsp
16 8 871 HON 600 RYAN JACOBI, ELKHORN, WI.
17 6 357 SUZ 100 CORY RYAN, DAVENPORT, IA.
18 2 775 KAW 636 JOSEPH ORTMAN, CAROL STREAM, IL.


lol, that pic is two years old! good find... will be fun next year, you ypsb'n too?
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSpud View Post
hey I'm all about more of that. except next year with those top two gone...

Amateur GTO Pos Laps Number Bike Size Name
1 18 950 SUZ 100 DUSTIN BOYD, AURORA, IL. Pirelli,NESBA,DC-Decals,Loomis-Powerspor
2 18 192 SUZ 750 STEVE PALELLE, HARVARD, IL. Michelin,Vesrah,Suomy,Ozaukee-Suzuki
3 17 778 YAM 600 TIM ALSUM, FRIESLAND, WI. Pirelli,LP,Parts411.com,AGV,EBC,API,Silk
4 17 547 KAW 636 AJ KRAUSE, FLUSHING, NY. Paul-Krause-Const,Pirelli,SharkSkinz,Vor tex
5 17 115 APR 998 DAVE SATERMO, OCONOMOWOC, WI. Suburban-Drywall,Wild-Motorgraphics,RS-R
6 17 201 SUZ 600 BILLY FRICKSON, MINNEAPOLIS, MN. Michelin,Vortex,LP,Dyno-Jet
7 17 558 SUZ 750 EDDIE HODGES, GRAYSLAKE, IL. Michelin,AGV,HotBodies,Powerstands,Vesra
8 17 377 SUZ 750 ROBERT SIMMONS, BLOOMINGTON, IN. Motorcycle-Center-Villa-Park-IL,Michelin
9 17 771 SUZ 750 CRAIG CURTIS, FREMONT, WI. LP,Bridgestone,PitBull,Sharkskinz,Vortex
10 17 503 KAW 600 SVEN BUGGE, MENASHA, WI. SpeedTech,Hindle-Exhaust,Pirelli,Vortex,
11 17 891 HON 600 JAMES RODEFER JR, SULLIVAN, WI. Cheaddar-Mafia-Racing,Oconomowoc-Motorsp
12 17 112 DUC 998 CARLO CALDERONE, ADDISON, IL. Bridgestone,SharkSkinz,Vesrah
13 17 781 SUZ 750 TOM MCCANN, 0, WI.
14 16 936 KAW 100 ERIC LEVITH, NORMAL, IL.
15 10 99 RC5 100 CHUCK COUGHLIN, AURORA, IL. PBI-Racing,Dark-Horse-Racing,DGY-Motorsp
16 8 871 HON 600 RYAN JACOBI, ELKHORN, WI.
17 6 357 SUZ 100 CORY RYAN, DAVENPORT, IA.
18 2 775 KAW 636 JOSEPH ORTMAN, CAROL STREAM, IL.


lol, that pic is two years old! good find... will be fun next year, you ypsb'n too?

14 710 SUZ 750 JASON RUNTE, WAUKESHA, WI. Suburban-Drywall,Wild-Inc-Motorgraphics,
2 4 377 SUZ 750 ROBERT SIMMONS, BLOOMINGTON, IN. Motorcycle-Center-Villa-Park-IL,Michelin
3 4 510 JAMIE FAHRNEY, MONROE, WI. [email protected],Infiniti-of-Ma dison,PulseRacing.org
4 4 461 SUZ 750 JOHN LACONTE, BIG BEND, WI.
5 4 778 YAM 600 TIM ALSUM, FRIESLAND, WI. Pirelli,LP,Parts411.com,AGV,Vortex,API,S


ypsb'n?

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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-02-2007, 10:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
14 710 SUZ 750 JASON RUNTE, WAUKESHA, WI. Suburban-Drywall,Wild-Inc-Motorgraphics,
2 4 377 SUZ 750 ROBERT SIMMONS, BLOOMINGTON, IN. Motorcycle-Center-Villa-Park-IL,Michelin
3 4 510 JAMIE FAHRNEY, MONROE, WI. [email protected],Infiniti-of-Ma dison,PulseRacing.org
4 4 461 SUZ 750 JOHN LACONTE, BIG BEND, WI.
5 4 778 YAM 600 TIM ALSUM, FRIESLAND, WI. Pirelli,LP,Parts411.com,AGV,Vortex,API,S


ypsb'n?

It was a liter bike track...

I was the first 600 at least and in the tire money.

Great job there Rob! From what I heard you were flying by any standards. BHF is my first track day track and my home track. That was my second time at RA and first time racing there.
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 04:21 AM
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Request: Change CCS grids to set by points
Action: Denied
The majority of racers prefer grids set by entry date for entry level racing
I call bull shit on that. I know of no one that was asked.

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 06:57 AM
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I call bull shit on that. I know of no one that was asked.
I agree, grid riders by the fastest times ran during practice. I understand there isn't enough time to have actual qualifying sessions that's why I think practice could be utilized as qualifying. I don't really care anyway, I just enjoy being out there but qualifying would be cool.

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 07:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I call bull shit on that. I know of no one that was asked.
Me either. From my observation, it's exactly the opposite.

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
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I agree, grid riders by the fastest times ran during practice. I understand there isn't enough time to have actual qualifying sessions that's why I think practice could be utilized as qualifying. I don't really care anyway, I just enjoy being out there but qualifying would be cool.
I agree it would, but there are too many hurdles for that. First, different bikes, different tires. No way to properly certify that a particular rider is on the correct bike. You don't get two transmitters if you have two bikes. And sometimes both bikes qualify for the same session. So, if you've got a GSXR600 and a GSXR1000, you run the same practice. How do you manage the times?

You don't.

Points would be easy and equitable for those that support the series.

Everyone wants to make these things budget minded for the beginning racer...that would be it.

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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 08:33 AM
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I would further say that every series regular that I have talked
to about it openly complains about it.


The first come - first served thing sucks.... it exists only to force
the riders to sign up well in advance for all events... and in doing
so maintain the financial health of the series.


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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 08:55 AM
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The financial health would benefit also from two things. Riders that keep paying for the licenses longer, riders that feel that CCS racing is equitable enough that they might consier entering more classes, or at least races all year.

With the program the way it is, I honestly don't have a great reason why to run CCS all the time. If I do, I might as well only select the minimum number of races that I want to run well in advance, and then go do races in other places.

At least the CRA won't accept pre entries until April. I placed entries for three events in 2007 in December of 2006. It was ridiculous. I raced two CRA events last year. Would have done three, but I had to have the bus' rear end rebuilt.

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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 10:31 AM

 
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I agree. Have the first race of the year set by time of entry. After that, go by points.

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 12:33 PM
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Are they changing spectator fees this year? They need to lower them in general. Getting charged $50 bucks on Saturday when you aren't even gonna watch on Sunday sucks. I know more people from CLSB would show their support if the gate fee was cheaper.

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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 12:40 PM
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They have been $25 each for a while.

Having free gate passes hasn't increased spectatorship in other areas of the country.

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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 07:37 PM
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I doubt it would here, either. The only people who ever seem to show up are the ones who are working, or know someone who is.

Meanwhile, RRW ran a piece on CCS Florida, saying that they were drawing reasonably good crowds--paying crowds--through the novel concept of marketing the races to the spectators.

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-03-2007, 07:46 PM
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Well, Henry's a smart guy. You don't market racing to people, you market the racers to people. You want to see Rossi, Mladin, or Hayes. Everyone's got a GSXR1000. And if it was a GSXR1000 done up by Yosh, you want to see "someone" ride the wheels off it. Or at least someone interesting.

Henry's CCS Florida also has Unlimited Grand Prix with no mufflers. You make more money if you don't run a muffler for the race.

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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-04-2007, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoparBoyy View Post
boo on the starting grid.

boo on the 848 allowed in middleweight
I just checked the specs on the 848. How in the world did this happen? The factory is claiming 134hp/70 ft-lbs, STOCK. Granted those are crank numbers, but we're still looking at a bike that will put down 120hp/60ft-lbs at the wheel without so much as a pipe and the all-powerful PCIII. Ducati has been pretty honest about its weight numbers, and their claiming 369 lbs.
For reference, Yamaha claims 366 for its R6 and puts out about 105 rwhp/42 ft-lbs rwt, stock. The other I4s are pretty much comparable.







I just called my guys to check on pricing for an 848.

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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-04-2007, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
I just checked the specs on the 848. How in the world did this happen? The factory is claiming 134hp/70 ft-lbs, STOCK. Granted those are crank numbers, but we're still looking at a bike that will put down 120hp/60ft-lbs at the wheel without so much as a pipe and the all-powerful PCIII. Ducati has been pretty honest about its weight numbers, and their claiming 369 lbs.
For reference, Yamaha claims 366 for its R6 and puts out about 105 rwhp/42 ft-lbs rwt, stock. The other I4s are pretty much comparable.







I just called my guys to check on pricing for an 848.


Here you go fruitcake!


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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 12-04-2007, 08:01 PM
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Racing organizations have a hard on for Ducati. Not sure why.

At 134HP, it might make 115. That would put it on par with my SV1000, a heavyweight bike.

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