Nitrogen on the track. - Chicagoland Sportbikes
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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Nitrogen on the track.

Anyone use Nitrogen in their tires on the race track? Any pro's or cons? Seems like it would be a good idea as nitrogen doesn't expand and contract like O2. I have a cheap source for nitrogen tanks is why I'm asking.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 04:13 AM
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I am interested in this.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plotts View Post
Anyone use Nitrogen in their tires on the race track? Any pro's or cons? Seems like it would be a good idea as nitrogen doesn't expand and contract like O2. I have a cheap source for nitrogen tanks is why I'm asking.
No con's that I know of, set your pressure and go. I've ran Nitrogen in a few tires before, I know people that do it as well.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 05:45 AM
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I have. Not sure that it helps that I know of, but then again I still checked the tires like normal.

Still have the cylinder at the shop.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 07:11 AM
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contents of air you breath:

Nitrogen 78%
Oxygen 21%
Argon 1%
+ others

your already putting 78% Nitrogen in! why pay for something that you get for free! Your still gonna have to keep an eye on your tire pressures so it really doesn't matter. and myself personally only check the pressure hot, so i never even notice a change in pressure with temperature.

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 07:18 AM
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Full nitrogen vs air, because no one carries 02 to the track, can be an improvement. More consistency in tires under high load, high heat situations. If one is looking to eliminate variables, it's good. I don't do it myself.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 07:20 AM
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its a waste of money, just check your pressures
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 07:38 AM
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I have used Nitrogen and it is nice to set and forget. You use target pressures and it gives you the ability to fine tune your pressures without worry for the tire temp.

I carry a large Nitrogen tank in the trailer that BFLY gave me, but in all honesty, we didn't use it a whole bunch last season. Just too lazy. But since I have it, I SHOULD have used it. I will be using it next season.

BTW - When I got my bike from KWS, it had Nitrogen in the wheels.

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 08:04 AM
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For as much as you guys change out tires it doesn't really take advantage of the second main reason behind using it. Nitrogen does not hold moisture like air does and improves tire and rim life significantly. All of our largest machines get nitrogen fills for rim longevity and tire life improvement. Not to mention explosion proofing.

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 08:09 AM
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And since we change tires so often... hence the reason it didn't get used much. But, next year I'll be bringing more than two bikes to the track. As such, each bike will see less ride time and the tires will be sitting on that bike for a longer period of time since my laps will be spread across all the bikes instead of just one.

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 09:42 AM

 
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For track use I've also heard that using air is better. The flexing of the tire when the pressure is lower allows the tire to build heat in the carcass. As the tire heats up, so does the air and the pressure increases. Hopefully when the tires are fully heated up, the air pressure is correct and your tires stick well and wear well.

I've heard when you run nitrogen you don't get as large a pressure increase. This means less flex in the tire initially so a longer amount of time to bring the carcass up to temperature.

If this were true, you'd want to use Nitrogen with tire warmers. Bring them to temperature, set and forget.

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkotlin View Post
...use Nitrogen with tire warmers. Bring them to temperature, set and forget.

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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 10:15 AM
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 10:20 AM
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Dude, you need to update your avatar.

Try this one:

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 10:44 AM
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Dude, you need to update your avatar.

Try this one:
"Your file of 34.2 KB bytes exceeds the forum's limit of 19.5 KB for this filetype."

You suck at Photoshop!

I fixed it, Avatar changed.

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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 10:58 AM
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yep, forgot to compress that one. Sorry :

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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkotlin View Post
For track use I've also heard that using air is better. The flexing of the tire when the pressure is lower allows the tire to build heat in the carcass. As the tire heats up, so does the air and the pressure increases. Hopefully when the tires are fully heated up, the air pressure is correct and your tires stick well and wear well.

I've heard when you run nitrogen you don't get as large a pressure increase. This means less flex in the tire initially so a longer amount of time to bring the carcass up to temperature.

If this were true, you'd want to use Nitrogen with tire warmers. Bring them to temperature, set and forget.
Well...

When we were using bias ply technology, yeah, lower pressure generated more heat through that bias ply weave of the carcass which resulted in a bigger increase in tire pressure. If tires got greasy, you increased your pressure to prevent so much carcass movement and heat. Racing at Brainerd, with no warm up lap and no tire warmers, it was no problem because your tires were warm before you got to turn one just because of the heat generated by the bias ply flex moving forward.

Radials generate heat through load. So, you have to corner with it, or brake and accelerate. If you don't load it up, it doesn't generate heat. Before tire warmers, you used the brakes a lot on the warm up lap in addition to being abrupt in cornering to try to generate any amount of heat before the start. Sun always works too.

On a radial, if you leave the pressure low, it has a bigger contact patch. More contact patch can generate more traction. But if it doesn't have heat, then it doesn't generate a lot of traction. So, often on a radial, increasing tire pressure will reduce the contact patch and generate load in a smaller contact patch. That load focused in a smaller patch will generate more heat that doing it the other way since the radial construction doesn't generate heat through simple carcass flex.

Nitrogen's biggest benefit is no water through humidity in the air that's being introduced into the tire, which expands and contracts in heat more dramatically than something like a "clean gas" as nitrogen.

"Super" Dave Rosno

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