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post #1 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 07:19 AM Thread Starter
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Tire folding?

I just noticed this: take a look at the rear tire. Is that a crease or a fold at the bottom, just above the pavement? Are sliPirellis supposed to do that? I was having rear tire traction issues over the weekend, I'm pretty sure I was running the right pressure.


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post #2 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 07:20 AM
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Looks like the pressure was way low.

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post #3 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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Looks like the pressure was way low.
Thats kinda what I was thinking, but I was running 30/28 hot, which I was told is the right pressure for the Diablo Supercorsa

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post #4 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 07:26 AM
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Was this an early morning warm up lap?

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post #5 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 07:27 AM Thread Starter
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Don't think so, and I was using warmers.

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post #6 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:05 AM
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Pressure looks way low. I don't think a road tire should ever do that no matter the brand or construction. Check your pressure after you come in as well as before and I would forward this to the Pirelli guys to see what input they might have. You should be getting about a 6 PSI rise in it when hot.
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post #7 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:14 AM
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Pirelli told me the same reference pressures, but I always ran my pressures higher than Pirelli recommended . Usually 33 front / 31 hot rear felt pretty good to me and gave me very good durability.

The tires just tear up much quicker at the lower pressures and I also did not like the way the front felt under hard braking if I ran lower pressures.

As far as the picture of the fold on your rear tire, looks like the pressure is too low to me.

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post #8 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:23 AM
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I ran the Supercorsas at 33f/29r. So if anything, I think your front was low. If you felt the rear was wallowing or giving you a mushy feel, you can add about a pound. But I wouldn't run the rear any higher than 29-30psi. I don't think you need to worry too much about the tire flexing like that. The way I see it, they are designed to do that. If it makes you feel better, I've seen pics of AMA guys mid-corner and their rear looks about the same as yours does in that pic.

edit: and another thing to take into consideration is how your rear suspension was set up. It's a possibility that you were asking the tire to do all the work the suspension was supposed to be doing...just a thought.

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post #9 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:33 AM
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That whole hot tire pressure thing scares me. So you are cooking your tires on the warmers. Fine. When they are up to temp (according to the warmer) and you check them with the guage it does let some air out. But how do you really know your tires are up to the same temp on the warmers as they would get when you are out on the track? How do you really know the carcass of the tire is up to the correct temp that pirelli recommends to set the pressure at?

I like the idea of setting tire pressures cold. It takes out so many variables. Set them once in the morning before you start riding and never touch them for the rest of the day. I never even mess with checking them during the day after that because I'm afraid I'll let pressure out and with the tires semi warm it throws the entire cold tire pressure check off.

Just run Michelins Rob. Or find out what cold tire pressures should be on your Pirellis.

It could also be that you were running 2nd or 3rd hand take offs. How many individuals did those tires go through before you used them?

I hate to hit a sore subject but that may be one reason how Shannon Bitzer lost his life. He was running a set of tires that 2 people had taken off of their bikes.

The back end of your bike was wallowing and jumping around that entire weekend begging for a high side.

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post #10 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:34 AM
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Is your pressure gauge calibrated??
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post #11 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post

It could also be that you were running 2nd or 3rd hand take offs. How many individuals did those tires go through before you used them?

I hate to hit a sore subject but that may be one reason how Shannon Bitzer lost his life. He was running a set of tires that 2 people had taken off of their bikes.

That back end of your bike was wallowing and jumping around that entire weekend.

+1 I knew something was funny when I was running the first set of take offs I had when it felt like the front would tuck. I passed it off as a cold tire. Well it wasn't a cold tire it was a way over used take off tire. The reason I lowsided at jennings. Knock on would I am not one to crash on the track to I am not passing off the crash to riding over my head or a dumb mistake by mis judgement . Nick you where right behind me as you know. One second I was tipping it in the next I was praying you were not going to run me over as I sliding on my stomach looking back at you
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post #12 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:42 AM
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I've got photos as early as 1992 with similar flatness on tires at the race track. Pirelli's have very soft carcasses. It's kind of the way they work. Probably won't see that in racing pictures with slicks because a lot of those have tall sidewalls with the 16.5's. Those have very, very stiff sidewalls.

I would look for other issues.

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post #13 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:43 AM
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On a side note, always check your tire pressure gauge to see if you're reasonably correct.

Nothing sucks more than having a different ruler than everyone else.

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post #14 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:44 AM
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+1 I knew something was funny when I was running the first set of take offs I had when it felt like the front would tuck. I passed it off as a cold tire. Well it wasn't a cold tire it was a way over used take off tire. The reason I lowsided at jennings. Knock on would I am not one to crash on the track to I am not passing off the crash to riding over my head or a dumb mistake by mis judgement . Nick you where right behind me as you know. One second I was tipping it in the next I was praying you were not going to run me over as I sliding on my stomach looking back at you
Yea man, you didn't do anything funny at all. The front just tucked and disappeared on you. You didn't even have time to say "oh shit" and you were down. Rock hard fucking tire, too many heat cycles. Race tires and slicks turn to stone before a DOT tire with my experience probably with how hot they get at race pace and how fast they cool down. I'm by no means a tire expert though.

In the dirt you can skimp on tires all day long and live to tell about it. In the road racing / track day world you CAN NOT FUCK AROUND when it comes to tires. If you have one doubt in your mind those tires are crap toss them. With how fast we are going it's a pretty serious concern.

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post #15 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:46 AM
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Always always always check your tire pressure cold. Always calibrate your guage before the season and after you drop it or some other reason it could be off. Tire pressure is so critical for handling, almost equal to suspension setup. Again, you should have around a 6 PSI rise in pressure when up to temp.
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post #16 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper View Post
That whole hot tire pressure thing scares me. So you are cooking your tires on the warmers. Fine. When they are up to temp (according to the warmer) and you check them with the guage it does let some air out. But how do you really know your tires are up to the same temp on the warmers as they would get when you are out on the track? How do you really know the carcass of the tire is up to the correct temp that pirelli recommends to set the pressure at?

I like the idea of setting tire pressures cold. It takes out so many variables. Set them once in the morning before you start riding and never touch them for the rest of the day. I never even mess with checking them during the day after that because I'm afraid I'll let pressure out and with the tires semi warm it throws the entire cold tire pressure check off.

Just run Michelins Rob. Or find out what cold tire pressures should be on your Pirellis.

It could also be that you were running 2nd or 3rd hand take offs. How many individuals did those tires go through before you used them?

I hate to hit a sore subject but that may be one reason how Shannon Bitzer lost his life. He was running a set of tires that 2 people had taken off of their bikes.

The back end of your bike was wallowing and jumping around that entire weekend begging for a high side.
Yeah, there was 1-2 near high sides, but fortunatley supermoto really got me used to dealing with a spinning sliding back end. It actually was fun, even if I couldn't get any drive out of the corner.

The only one who used those tires was Team Serpent. Beaz got 'em from him, and never used them himself. The front had 28 laps on it, but the rear said 'no data.'

But you're right, I don't like this hot pressure bidness. I'm probably just going to stick to my Michelins. I just let Mr. Mason set it and then I can forget it.

I'm pretty sure my gauge was on. Its a really nice unit from Longacre, never been dropped, always kept in the aluminum pistol case it came with

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post #17 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder84 View Post
I ran the Supercorsas at 33f/29r. So if anything, I think your front was low. If you felt the rear was wallowing or giving you a mushy feel, you can add about a pound. But I wouldn't run the rear any higher than 29-30psi. I don't think you need to worry too much about the tire flexing like that. The way I see it, they are designed to do that. If it makes you feel better, I've seen pics of AMA guys mid-corner and their rear looks about the same as yours does in that pic.

edit: and another thing to take into consideration is how your rear suspension was set up. It's a possibility that you were asking the tire to do all the work the suspension was supposed to be doing...just a thought.
Good point.

The suspension had a base-line setup and should have been pretty close. Suspension is sort of a black art to me, but I think a little more squat would have helped.

That bike is actually my street ride, but my track bikes were getting winter refreshing and weren't quite ready.

The front actually felt pretty good. Then again, I don't tend to ride the front hard. I'm all about point 'n shoot.

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post #18 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:04 AM
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Rob, where did you get that picture? Are there pictures up of everyone else somewhere?

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post #19 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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Rob, where did you get that picture? Are there pictures up of everyone else somewhere?
This wasn't from Gail. Its on the FLSB board, thread started by a guy named Vindoo, IIRC. There was a good one of you on the second page.

edit: found it

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post #20 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:10 AM
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WTF?!?!

Grasshopper440, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

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post #21 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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You gotta ask permission.
http://www.floridasportbikers.com/at...1&d=1200446093

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post #22 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob View Post
Always always always check your tire pressure cold. Always calibrate your guage before the season and after you drop it or some other reason it could be off. Tire pressure is so critical for handling, almost equal to suspension setup. Again, you should have around a 6 PSI rise in pressure when up to temp.
Actually, the Pirelli's are supposed to be set based on a hot pressure. 6psi rise in a radial track use tire would be really bad too.

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post #23 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:19 AM
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Actually, the Pirelli's are supposed to be set based on a hot pressure. 6psi rise in a radial track use tire would be really bad too.
How bad? Willy willy bad?

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post #24 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:37 AM
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Actually, the Pirelli's are supposed to be set based on a hot pressure. 6psi rise in a radial track use tire would be really bad too.
That seems retarded to me. I would think the "HOT" pressures would vary much more than the cold pressures and might be a little harder to dial in.
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post #25 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
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That seems retarded to me. I would think the "HOT" pressures would vary much more than the cold pressures and might be a little harder to dial in.
I agree with you 100%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
This wasn't from Gail. Its on the FLSB board, thread started by a guy named Vindoo, IIRC. There was a good one of you on the second page.

edit: found it
Hey Rob, what thread was that picture in? I have access now.

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post #26 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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I agree with you 100%



Hey Rob, what thread was that picture in? I have access now.
Click the link shortbus!

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post #27 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:42 AM
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This is what Pirellis website said:

"Critical to understanding the set-up is to appreciate that this pressure is the "operating pressure" of the tire when it is fully warmed up to working temperature and that the difference between "hot" and "cold" tires can be very significant, typically 7 psi.

Set-up procedure: set the tire pressures when cold to approximately 6 psi less than the required operating pressure."

Maybe the new race tire is different, but from everything I have been told you should always check them cold and go from there, verifying your end result after they are hot.
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post #28 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:44 AM
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Click the link shortbus!
Douche bag. Its a link to a picture not a thread.

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post #29 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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This is what Pirellis website said:

"Critical to understanding the set-up is to appreciate that this pressure is the "operating pressure" of the tire when it is fully warmed up to working temperature and that the difference between "hot" and "cold" tires can be very significant, typically 7 psi.

Set-up procedure: set the tire pressures when cold to approximately 6 psi less than the required operating pressure."

Maybe the new race tire is different, but from everything I have been told you should always check them cold and go from there, verifying your end result after they are hot.
Thats they key phrase. The -6 psi cold temp is just to get you in the ballpark for the required hot temp. If you're temp is not "required operating pressure" when hot, then you adjust to get to that hot pressure.

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post #30 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Douche bag. Its a link to a picture not a thread.


http://www.floridasportbikers.com/sh...=jennings+pics

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