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Do you remember the day?

1961 Views 30 Replies 18 Participants Last post by  Y2KR1
I've been thinking for a while about how things have changed around here and was wondering if anyone else has noticed a difference?

Things I still see the same and yes I'm going to tell it like I see it, it is nothing more than my opinion should anyone feel the need to flame get upset, or post an opposing opinion feel free that is what a discussion is, both sides.

First of all the biggest reason I haven't been around and I know most of you think it's because I'm married. Well yes there is some truth to that as to be expected, but I still get my saddletime in I just choose not to do it in a group anymore, WHY? Well here goes the reality check that will get most peoples panties in a bunch.

I remember last summer we got to a point we had a group ride almost every week. They were great rides we had a lot of fun and for the most part they were safe as safe as they can be. Then through the course of the summer riders started going down one after another myself leading the way. Each time we talked about whether or not there was anything we could do as a group to prevent this and everyone continued to say the same old line. It's not our fault, ride your own ride, leader isn't to blame, rider error or a hundred and one other excuses. I'm sorry but that is what they are in my opinion. The group through it's friendly razzing and hassling has started to create a lot of competition. Be it to have the best bike, best track times, best wheelies, whatever there is extreme competition and influence.

Now I know many will say I'm way off base here, and so be it but I have a question explain the statistics? In 1 weekend of NESBA events there are numerous run-off's and crashes. Now obviously to some extent this is to be expected after all it is the track. But now look closer at the number of riders that went down over a two day track weekend and only 1 of those riders that I know isn't a member of this board.

Am I saying CLSB is a bad place and should be shut down, NO NOT AT ALL. But this place along with any other board will only be a total representation of the members who contribute to it. So what are peoples thoughts on this? Is everyone happy with where the board has gone? If not are they willing to change, do you guys care if it changes? I'm interested because I've met a lot of great people through this board and I know there are other members who I would like to get to know because I can tell they are good people, but I tend to refrain because of an affect the group dynamics seems to have on the way people ride.

Flame away if you feel the need, it's my thoughts nothing more.
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Lighting up the torch and pulling out the pitchfork.....:evil

Let's face it, on this board are a bunch of people that started riding what, 1 or 2 years ago and have low amount of miles/experience under their belt, they are going to crash wether they are riding in a group or by themselves....someone said once that it isnt if you are going to crash, but when you are going to crash. There are some that probably shouldnt be on a bike either here too due to the lack of motor skills or co-ordination (not everyone is an olympic figure skater in the same reference). And there are the guys that ride quite a lot and have been for some time, their number is coming up or has come up already. No amout of trying to make it safe will totally eliminate the danger inherant with this sport. THe fact that we are riding sport bikes kind of adds to the chances that something will happen eventually, we ride them because we like the performance over your average standard or cruiser bike. So, where am I going with this post?.,....We are on motorcycles, motorcycles are dangerious to an extent, and if you RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE you will have fun....just accept the risks. No amount of bellyaching will change the risks involved in what we do.
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I hear what you are saying..heres my prospective:

This board is FREE to all its members...its not a membership, or an organization of a business nor a cult in its STRICT following, we are all free to think and talk our minds as it is our God given right when it comes to the members on the site.

Group rides, and how INDIVIDUALS act on them.

Well, let me put it like this.
A OPEN GROUP RIDE and invite to all, (could be people we know and it could be new people we don't know.)
this isn't some fanny may, little girl scouts club with a bunch of soft spoken, emotionally soft people. We ride bikes there for WE motorcyclist have a touch more BALLS to us, be it male or female. balls in the sense of EXCITEMENT we crave it.

If we didn't...then they better get a Volvo and drive with a football helmet. There for its in our nature to be a touch competitive from what I can tell on this board of members from me knowing ALMOST all of them. there is 99% OF SOME KICK ASS PEOPLE ON IT. And most ALL of them are willing to compromise on safety weather it be group or single riders in there presents.

Sure we got some BASIC rules of group rides...I mean shit its COMMON sense. NON of us want to get hurt or injured.

as far as what i see on the track with all the crash's, from my outside point of view is...(like my old thread, word to the wise)
is people rushing a bit to much to push themselves...BEYOND what they know they can handle. weither it be mentally or skills wise to control an uncontrolled situation on a bike when it gets out of hand..THAT where EXPERIENCE comes from. slowly learn and never forgotten.

back to group rides and i think your point of it being a HAZZARDIST place to be in your viewing.
we all know by now...HEY we meet people with your same interest of way of riding (weither it be CRAZY,NORMAL, OR SLOW) riding styles so we pare up with those riders in fun factor of the same type of riding for that ride.
then there's the i trust this guy next to versus the other. THAT mainly comes with time and sharing the road with he or she. then the trust factor builds. And that's great.

That's what this site was meet people to have fun, to share an interest, and find friends hopefully threw it.

IF anyone thinks they will be putting them self's in HARMS way in form of a group ride (as much as i tell people to list what type of ride it is so others can join if they choose to par take in that level of ride) THEN DON'T RIDE IN THAT GROUP AND DON'T RIDE WITH OTHERS IF YOU CAN DEAL WITH IT MENTALLY. to be conformable in your settings is a good thing to always have...there is no need to put yourself in a BAD situation.

That's LIFE and anything we do in life has goods and bads...and its up to ourselves to choose what we do with what we want.

ITS JUST A MATTER OF TIME. We can drive as safe as we can to EXTREME measures...all it takes is 1 micro second to change your future....(example...some guy wants to side swipe you just to be a evil killing SOB)...boom its over.
we are exposed like a new born baby in a mist of wolfs.

That's reality....we are vonurable.!!!!!!

choose how to live life and have fun, do your best to have a happy life and a trouble free life. be as smart as you can.
CHOOSE what you do and CLAIM YOURSELF AS YOUR OWN MASTER of destiny as possible. But remember WE DON'T HOLD SHIT in our hands but a false illusion of safety.

(sorry if this seems a touch to much but its reality)

anyway...people are people good, bad, crazy, stupid, etc...choose who ya wanna deal with. and choose where you put yourself.

This site is to have fun in our hobby and share knowalge of the sport and hopefully meet some new friends.

p.s. dave you know i like you a TON and consider you a GREAT freind...this post isnt focused towards you but in general to who ever reads it. some stuff pertains to you in helping to end this subject. of whos responsible if someone in the pack crash's. ITS THERE OWN DAMM FAULT..if someone didnt PURPOSLY take them out. simple as that.

p.s.s. and no i didnt spell check:laughing
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The statistics are against many of the CLSB group have just recently been to the track? When I started last year at Putnam, I did not know anyone except Dave who I've know for years. I pitted next to Jack and befriended him. I also somewhat met Jim, Pete, Lupi, ? did disappear for a while. You were one of our regular good leaders at rides became chaotic after that. I haven't been on one small group ride all year. I don't even ride on the street much because my choices are by myself (OK) or with the new CLSB group (disorganized chaos). I do try to make small private invite only rides when I can.

I guess my point is that as the number of riders in our group increase, whether it be street or track, there will be an increased amount of accidents. With such a large group of people who actively "chat" with each other...things will tend to get out of hand.

There are a lot of inexperienced riders on these rides.

You can't even compare trackday crashes to group rides. The spills at BHF were taken by good riders. I have been pushing it, but safely and to a reasonable extent. Jeff is a good rider....I also put myself in that category.
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yeah thats another thing..ALOT of us old timers...know how to ride..(you older members of SBN and CLSB) know who you are...we get new guys that are less experanced etc...most guys who know HOW TO RIDE want to be with people that are the same skill level to cut down the I WONDER what do you do you ask?

call that guy to made friends with and like to ride with and go have alittle private ride..SHIT there isnt no rules around here..IF WE ALL DONT RIDE THEN NO ONE RIDES:laughing thats bullshit..lmao

have fun, go with who you like..and if there is a group ride, be it small or large...choose to go (whoever is looking to go) if its in your happy riding time to join a open ride.

this isnt some cult were have to follow some GOD given rules.
the only thing I DO WHEN i go for a ride..and let guys know if they wanna tag alone is...if you are following me this and that should be done...for saftey for my ass and others around us.

then theres rides where ANYTHING goes.
just CHOOSE (who ever) what you want to put yourself in.

even on group rides that you want to be MORE aware of your saftey...WELL dont line up between people you dont know..OR fuck it..STAY ALL THE WAY in the back..and EVEN father back from the last guy...if you want to partake in the goup ride.
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Odysseys said:
even on group rides that you want to be MORE aware of your saftey...WELL dont line up between people you dont know..OR fuck it..STAY ALL THE WAY in the back..and EVEN father back from the last guy...if you want to partake in the goup ride.
That's what I do, but I'm slow. :(

I use the group rides for a chance to chat/bs with people who enjoy riding and hopefully learning how to ride better. If somebody with 2 posts on the board asked me to go on a ride to Wisconsin for a day, I'd probably turn him down simply because I don't know how he's going to ride. I'd invite him on a different group ride to see though. But if the LITH folks invited me I'd be grabbing my helmet in seconds.

Statistically, the '2-5 years' of riding experience group have the largest % of crashes. That's due to KNOWING less than you THINK you know and by then the rider decided to buy that NEXT bike, be it the crotch rocket or the big cruiser.

Just my 2 cents!
Am I saying CLSB is a bad place and should be shut down, NO NOT AT ALL. But this place along with any other board will only be a total representation of the members who contribute to it. So what are peoples thoughts on this? Is everyone happy with where the board has gone? If not are they willing to change, do you guys care if it changes? I'm interested because I've met a lot of great people through this board and I know there are other members who I would like to get to know because I can tell they are good people, but I tend to refrain because of an affect the group dynamics seems to have on the way people ride.

i wanted to comment on this.
the board shut down? because of some guys that might be TOTAL assholes on the board.
my answer: the board will never shut down as long as me and tony can get the funds to keep it going and our hearts are still into SHARING what we like with other people. thats the whole point of the board. IF WE get TOTAL assholes on the board...i KICK THERE ASS OFF.
if they are on a group ridew with me and causing to REAL saftey issues...i let them know..HEY GO DO that fucken shit on your own time...(if the ride is not CLASSED as a demon run) but you gotta be doing some stupid shit for me to get going.

am i happy the way the site is going?

my answer: YES...myself i am trying to give lessons to those that want it for what ever needs the need to improve on. i see people gearing up, i see people taking the knee dragging and MASSIVE crazyness thats assiociated with MOTORCYCLING hudlums to the TRACK..where there they can focus on what they like to do..rather then the street.
i personally dont know anywhere i would feel comfortable..leaning full over at 100+mpr on the street.!

i see OLDER members from back in the day...taming it down a touch more and placing that (I WANNA GO FASTER AND LEAN FARTHER in the right inviorment)

new guys will catch on (IF THEY ARE SMART AND WANT to live a longer life)

group dynamics ?

my answer...we will never be a flassless orchestrated team of riders. unless we have numbered groups of people..constinyly riding and FOCUSing on some kind of format.

a format that the usual bikers law of standerd, (ride staggered, give enough space) etc....BUT for the most part...i see people doing this already EVEN when ive never said anything or given my normal speach group :rolleyes that the guys..just lov hearing:laughing

so all and all the site is looking good...if we get trouble makers on the site...we kick them off, we get trouble makers on a ride..we let them know (if it is a normal ride and not a demon ride , where anything goes)
as far as the site representing its self...there a bunch of smart and great guys and gals on here.
as far a the highest level...if someone wants to rate the site?
look at me and tony as the main leaders...its our site...there for we care what ever it might be.

p.s. ahh no i didnt spell check again..i am doing like 50 other things aswell..:laughing
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Looking at this thread....Dave and Kruz, I havent seen you guys on any of the rides going on this board this year....maybe go on one of the rides and see what they are like? They are not all disorganized cluster f's. There have been a few of the more famous ones detailed on the board where the leader didnt make it clear what was going on to the rest of the group, someone had an axe to grind and started shit, or someone (very out of the ordinary, but it happened) did push themselves or their bikes too hard and went down, but for the most part they are not all like you think they are. Yes the stories get colorful...lots of the stories are loosely based on reality (this is the internet), dont let them sour your view on the topic. I have noticed that most of the concerns about the group rides that origionate on this board are from people that never actually are on any of the rides....we have to change this otherwise this topic will still pointless be debated ad nausium. To all...fear not and come join the rides, you'll most likely like them!
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on the flip side, i have seen quite a few people get much faster and become good riders. there are alot of different dynamics going on in a group ride.

ps. Dave, you are a good leader, no doubt.
I've been on a few small group rides....I've also been on the carnage rides from last summer. I don't ever play follow the leader with the crazies....I ride where I feel comfortable. I haven't been on many group rides this summer mainly because I've been real busy at work and time on the bike is time away from the chick :D

I'll ride with the idiots to a point...I just steer clear.
you knoe the title to this thread (do you remember the day) is a old micheal jackson song...a love song..i almost thought this was gonna be some fruity thing:laughing

p.s. dave hows the house?
gotta have you over soon...(as i get some freaking A/C) i am being a cheap basterd..lmao
If you mix testosterone (even women have it) with a chess club and someone will talk shit. But the couple group rides I went on were real tame and organized. Just having fun. I crashed at the track because I was riding at my limit and something unexpected happened. But that's why I was at the track. I would never attempt to try that on the street, especially on a group ride, nor have I seen anyone else do so. A group ride, a track day, and message board BSin' are three entirely separate things and I hope everyone realizes that. I'm real glad to have hooked up with this group to expand my horizons. I've been riding for 15 years but this leaning shit is all new to me.:laughing I need to take Ody up on those lessons.
I get very conflicted on this subject from day to day when I think about it. Sometimes I think the board is getting to squidly and sometimes I think it needs to lighten up. But I am in the very middle of riding styles. On the very left you have your extreme stunters and on the very right you have your extreme railers. Anyone who has ridin with me knows that I love to get my front end in the air but I also love to see how fast in can get in the turns.

Now this is a battle we have seen on SBN for years now and its gotten worse recently. We seem to have a much quicker growth curve with this issue over here since most of us are existing SBN members and have been active in the message board community for a long time now. So sure a few members are going to look a bit more squidly and some may look like safty Nazi's but like I said it's all perception. I think a lot of it depends simply on who's more active in the discussions. The more one promotes thier individual style in the forums the more the whole perception of the board will lean twords thier particilar standing on the left to right scale of things. Now that is not directed at any members in particular that is my observation from being a mod over at SBN for 2 years now. I do see it happen here as well at SBN and I always try to be the balancing factor in a lot of those discussions and bring it back twords the middle where it will almost always be common ground for everyone. But if everyone jumps in and express's thier own personal view on everything than it will balance out automatically. Never be intimidated, by someones opinion, they are like assholes everyone has one, so feel free to air it out on here, thats why it's here.

This is also one of the reasons I started up the wednesday night bike nights at Strats. So people could get together outside of the normal ride pace and hang out for a few hours and get to know one another. I could care less if anyone ended up riding on wednesdays I just want to see everyones friendships grow there. We all share a common bond and we can all learn a lot from each other. Thats the beauty of all of this. Hell If it wasnt for Fred I still wouldnt be able to get my front wheel up in second gear, and a lot of people who are wheelie masters will learn how to turn better from other influences on this board. Thats what its all about guys.

So be safe out there and I expect to see everyone at strats on wednesday for a big group hug. :D Just stay away from ken he gets grabby in those moments. :D
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My opinion is this: I think that a majority of riders on this board are good descent people to ride with......the problem runs into when friends of friends come. all of a sudden their are 40 riders!!!! maybe 10 or so are on the board. where did the other 30 riders come from? obviously you'll get the passerbys that stop but most of the time it's buddies that come and then those buddies tell buddies and so on and so on.

you can't frobid people not to show up, but most of the better rides have come from PM certain people or chatting at track days so we only get a handfull of people.

I think when you post group rides, we should also stipulate what kind of ride it will be....asshole only...great I know to stay away.

moderate pace ...great what time should I show up.
ive got to tell you this topic really wears on me. I enjoy riding with everyone be it fast or slow riders. I do my best to make it enjoyable for anyone who shows up, make sure they are aware of where we are going and what to expect. Ride thier own ride , pay attention to what the guys in front are pointing out. On the last group ride we had what 17-18 bikes of all experience levels, so we had to wait for 5 minutes on some stretches of road for the last rider to show up. i guarntee(s/p?) everyone had a good time and it was 100 degrees outside. I can go back to riding with just the original crew out there, its no biggy, although it is more fun to have everyone there to talk to after the ride.
like i said this topic has gotten old in my book, the more it is discussed and argued about the less i want to lead them. If you (the rider) can accept the fact that there are different calibers of riders in the group then you and everyone else will have fun. its not a race its a ride, there is no reason why the faster riders and the slower riders cannot exist on the same, the fact is they can as long as you ride your own ride(sounds like a broken record skipping doesnt it). then when the ride is over and we are all at hooters everyone can talk about how fun the ride was!
your(anyone of you) choice.:rolleyes
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Well, I enjoy this board for the comradery and socialization. The group rides are great too, but I think I know where you are coming from. I love to get out there and ride with everyone, but, for me, visions and experiences still linger in my mind. It doesn't stop me from going on a spirited ride, but it does make me choosey. Also, I would rather spend the money to go on a track and ride hard than take my chances on the street. Now, I'm not saying anything about the rides or the leaders, because I give them props for all the responsibility they shoulder. Lord knows, I couldn't lead a ride and I am thankful we have some great leaders.

As to the track riding and the number of people that went down. I don't know if it has to do with egos. I know my incident was due taking a different angle to get the jump on traffic and follow John Malendorf, not leaning off enough, and not having a high mount pipe:rolleyes :p . Have I noticed some egos? Sure, but it would be hard to prove that they had anything to do with the wrecks that took place because I am not so sure that the people that went down had the over inflated egos. Although, I know what you're getting at.

And I agree with a lot of what you said, Dave. And I'm glad you said it.

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Newbie Response

Here is my take on all of this. I have been on this Board for 5 days now. I have not had the opportunity to go on any rides because I work weekends when the rest of the world rides:laughing . Seriously though, Before i joined this board I read some of the older topics and try to see what this message board thing was all about. I looked at SBN, EZboards, and here. I have focused a great deal of my attention to this board simply because I have an opportunity to go and ride with u guys.

In the last five days I have had guys give me advice about wheelies, tires, all types of mods, track and most importantly the importance of gear. I have been riding a rocket now for 5 years and riding motorcycles since I was a very little kid. This board has given me exposure to great minds that have enjoyed this sport at all levels.

Finally, I am a good rider. I am smart and focus on safety for myself and others around me. I am not the stuntmaster and I will never be the fastest in the pack (i have an R6 :laughing ). But I have no problem witnessing a great wheelie or someone breaking the sound barrier! I can't wait to get a chance to go and ride with you guys at all levels. Especially if you guys can get me on the track someday. It has always been a dream of mine....sob sob.


p.s. Thanx to you guys that run this crazy corner of the internet...for what it is worth, it's been helping me! I owe you guys a beer:cheers
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Re: Newbie Response

RdRUNNER said:

p.s. Thanx to you guys that run this crazy corner of the internet...for what it is worth, it's been helping me! I owe you guys a beer:cheers

Hey thanks for the compliment. And I am a big miller lite fan :D :D
Hell I guess that's better than buying you an expensive import!!!!

:evil :evil :evil

Bottoms up big guy!:cheers
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