[cherrypicker]

Damn Honda electrical systems. Soemthing is screwed up wiht my electrical system. I studied the wiring dagram for a while and I think I'm half way there but I'm still missing something. Here's whats wrong.

Problem: when you turn the ignition to on, all the turn signals coem on. The biek starts and runs when I push the starter button, but will imediately die when I let go of it.

Started when: I was having trouble reconencting my tailights after the most recent BHF trackday. The pin connectors were bent. I had trouble gettign both the running light and brake lights to work on the left bulb. The good news is that problem seems ot be solved.

Current temporary fix: The bike runs fine if I disconnect the headlights and have the trun signal relay pulled (may not be nessesary).

Possible causes: I'm guessign a little here. I think it's related to the starter relay that kills the headlights when you push the starter. The headlight circut is routed through the engine stop relay, so in one positon that relay cuts the headlights. In the other it will cut the engine if there is a completes the circuit for the sidestand and bank angle sensor. I think there is a short in the headlight circuit. I can;t figure out hwo that is related to the turn signals though. I even have the realy pulled and if the headlights are plugged in, all four turn signals come on when I turn the ignition to "ON".

First I pull off all the covers and search for a shafed wire. Then I'll start checkign the relays. the problem seems somewaht intermittent. It will work fine one tiem, then the next I have ot start disconnecting lights.

Also, no fuses have blown.

Any thoughts??????:confused :confused :confused

 

[Odysseys]

i say..pour some gas out threw the gas tank over flow onto the bike...and spark some wires...burn the bike down...and claim it on the insurance

 

[Doc]

Any thoughts??????:confused :confused :confused

^.......................Do what Ken said.........


Then buy a Yamaha :twofinger



Doc

 

[Meulen]

Mike,

Some manuals have a troubleshoot section in the back. I would check there and perform all the little tests if its there. You might find an easy fix. Otherwise just start testing stuff. I would see if your relays and everything are good first. Like I said before, I think if it was a short somewhere you would be popn' fuses which to me would mean to start with testing relays, flashers and such. I had a flasher go bad one time that caused me some weird happenings.

Also....check to see what circuits are intertwined with any cutoff switches, handlebar switch, kickstand...something may be going bad in those circuits causing incorrect juice to go through these switches when there is power there and shutting off your motor.

 

[cherrypicker]

I should hav egotten the damn extended warranty. If I had it paid off, I'd just make it a track bike and buy something new.

I guess I'll check out all the relays. The trouble shooting section is pretty useless for this problem.

 

[Kruz]

If you want any electrical crap from an 02 F4i. let me know. I found a guy on ebay parting out his blown F4i. I picked up a new windscreen, brake fluid reservoir, and right clip-on for $60 shipped.

I know he said he had all the wiring crap left.

 

[Meulen]

There ya go. Get a new loom and be done with it

 

[cherrypicker]

So i pull off the front fairing and tail section. i check out all the wiring. Looks okay. I reconnect al the relays. I plugin just the min harness but not the turn signals. The bike starts, no problems. I go to plug in the headlight, and the engine dies ( although Im not sure the plug ever made a connection. I disconnect the engine stop relay and check the conection. A little corosion on one of the connections. I clean it a little and and restart the bike. I reconnect the turn signals and headlights one at a time. It keeps running. SO that's where I'm at.

I'm still not sure what the problem is. I'm not sure if it will even die while I'm running.

I'm starting to think that the engine stop realy is going bad and that the heat has something to do with it. I might also have a loose connection on the bank sensor or sidestand.

I wish these bikes were like industrial equipment and used a PLC. Then I could hook up a laptop and test all the inputs and outputs.

 

[cherrypicker]

If you want any electrical crap from an 02 F4i. let me know. I found a guy on ebay parting out his blown F4i. I picked up a new windscreen, brake fluid reservoir, and right clip-on for $60 shipped.

I know he said he had all the wiring crap left.

Maybe I'll buy all his relays at least.

 

[Kruz]

Cherry...
He'll probably sell you EVERYTHING for $50....

I sent him an e-mail asking what he wanted for all the wiring. If you know exactly what you need (and are a cheap ass ),
I'll give you his info.

Let me know...

 

[cherrypicker]

PM me his info.


BTW - I got myself a PCIIIr. It's comming Thursday. I think this winter I'll get a full Hindle system and have Drucker make me a custom map on the Dyno.

between the PC and the new ari filter, she should be running sweet at Gratton on Monday. Can't wait.

Not to basterdize the thread, but have you messed with the ignition mapping. I was wondering it you could retard the ignition 1 or 2 degrees at lower throttle settings to help smooth out on/off throttle transitions.

 

[Odysseys]

cherry take the damm thing to a shop already:jester

 

[Kruz]

but have you messed with the ignition mapping. I was wondering it you could retard the ignition 1 or 2 degrees at lower throttle settings to help smooth out on/off throttle transitions.

You need to talk to my head mechanic...Matt Drucker

Yes he deifintely did something to the timing....

I'll have to show you my dyno sheet...it's a 45 degree ruler.

102hp with the slip on....if I had to do it again, Id do the full alumin Hindle. Since my Leo has only a small dent in it...I'm going to just deal with it. It is a track back now....

:rolleyes

 

[cherrypicker]

cherry take the damm thing to a shop already:jester

i refuse ot pay some idiot ot take guesses and randomly replace stuff when I can do it myself. I really don't want ot trailer my bike 2 hours up to 4&6 or Drucker jsut ot fix a imtermittent electrical problem.

I don't think the idiots around here know what a volt meter is.

I think I'm going to try ordering a new Engine Stop Relay. I'm about 80% sure that's the problem.

t's hard ot diagnose a problem when It's not hapeneing. Rght now the bike is working fien again. I'm jsut going ot track prep it for Gratton and deal with it next week.

 

[YZFRabbit]

Mike, I dunno about the engine stop relay....remember how the headlight relay buzzed with only one bulb in? And the bike starting after pulling the t/s relay? And the turn signals staying lit even with the t/s relay pulled? I kind of have the seat of the pants impression that there is something chafed in the wiring harness somewhere, quite possibly internally between the wires. Somewhere around the steering head maybe (flex area)? You have the wiring diagram, but I get this feeling that this is one of those funky shorts, or possibly a funky ground somewhere (those can cause havoc too)

Or just duct tape a spot light to your helmet for those times that it craps out so you can ride with no headlights :jester

 

[Meulen]

a imtermittent electrical problem.

I don't think the idiots around here know what a volt meter is.

Wow Mike that kind of offends me buddy. I'm a frequent user of a volt meter and sometimes that intermittent electrical problem can make the best mechanics look like idiots. I think what Ken was trying to say is when you take it to a shop those guys usually know things that we don't because chances are somebody with your same bike came in last week with the same problem and they know a better place to start.

If you were so smart you might not have messed it up when you screwed with the tail lights to begin with. :laughing :laughing :laughing

 

[cherrypicker]

Wow Mike that kind of offends me buddy. I'm a frequent user of a volt meter and sometimes that intermittent electrical problem can make the best mechanics look like idiots.

I wasn't talking about you. You know what mechanics do whe nthey can't figure it out. Start replacing parts and hope for the best.... then you end up wiht a huge ass repair bill for $1 OEM parts they charge $50 for.

My local dealer couldn't even order me the right air filter for me after I was very clear I needed the part for a '01/'02 model. They changed my CCT and it took them over a week and they didn;t even put the plastics back on right... not to mention they took off both sides:rolleyes

The 3 hour round trip to the Chicago area for a compitent dealer really sucks, and I would rather spend my own tiem finding the problem becasue 1) I'll learn somthing, 2) I like the challenge 3) I'd rather spend $100 on a track day and say fuck the lights, then spend that money on a mechanic.

Andy - Thanks for the tip on where to look. I'll check around the steering head and also at where I spliced some wires ot connect my yellow box to the speed sensor.

 

[cherrypicker]

Mike, I dunno about the engine stop relay....remember how the headlight relay buzzed with only one bulb in? And the bike starting after pulling the t/s relay? And the turn signals staying lit even with the t/s relay pulled?

BTW - the headlights run through the e-stop relay along with the bank angle sensor and the sidestand sensor. I think pulling the T/S relay and having it solve the problem was just a fluke. Pulling the headlighs wasn't. I'll play with it some more tonight.

 

[cherrypicker]

Well, I tries it again today and it's fine. Only happens after I've ridden for an hour or so in hot humid weather.

I put the plastics back. Screw it. I at least know how to fix it. I guess I'll just avoid riding at night for a little while.

I just don't have the patience to cut apart the tape and conduit ot inspect half the harness thne wrap it bakc together. Maybe I'll start carrying my volt meter with me on rides so I can do some wire tracing when the problem happens.

I did see one thing in common with the headlight, turn signals and bank angle switch, they all use the same common ground. Is it possible that this ground is shorted with another wire??? Would that cause the bank angle switch ot be open, and the trun signals ot light up???

 

[YZFRabbit]

You might be on to something there...I noticed that when the problem was happening the turn lights were bright when you had the starter button depressed, and would dim below normal operating brightness when the start button was released/engine dead/so on. There is some correlation to the all the turn signal lamps going on when the problem is occuring, brighter when start button depressed, dimmer when not. I wish I had some sort of schematics of your bike to look at, but I am flying blind here.