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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I installed this thinking I'd gain a little top end and drop a couple pounds. I had some trouble with the installation, but I got it resolved. I wish I had orderd the high mount now, but I'll live.


First off, it actually seems quierter than my Micron because the tone is higher and more metalic. It's not a smooth, but it sounds more like a 600 wihtout being too raspy.

The power.. is super smooth. I mean way smoooth. It's feels like brand new bike. The power delvery is so smooth it feels slower until you watch the tach and look at the speedo. 3 or 4 HP isn't huge, but it's noticeable.

The best improvement is the softness of the throttle transition. The only thing you feel is a very slight bump from drivetrain slack, but nothing from the motor. This is going ot make it even easier to ride on the track.

The only minor complaint. There is a flat spot from 3000-4500 followed but a surge at 5000. So if you're accelerating through a turn at low speeds or from a stop, it can catch you off guard a little.

I can't wait to get this thing on the dyno.

Better yet, I can't wait to get this thing on the racetrack.

I can't say enough about how smooth the throttle response is. You can barely feel on/off throttle transitions. i was expecing it to maybe get worse. You never expect to gain driveabiity at low RPM's with a race pipe.
 

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cherrypicker said:
The only minor complaint. There is a flat spot from 3000-4500 followed but a surge at 5000. So if you're accelerating through a turn at low speeds or from a stop, it can catch you off guard a little.

I can't wait to get this thing on the dyno.

Better yet, I can't wait to get this thing on the racetrack.

I can't say enough about how smooth the throttle response is. You can barely feel on/off throttle transitions. i was expecing it to maybe get worse. You never expect to gain driveabiity at low RPM's with a race pipe.
You'll get spoiled quick on the smooth throttle response. That's what I kept bitching about when I got the '02! You get used to the smooth power and you'll never be satisfied with anything else. The guys that build motors for drag racing don't seem too conccerned about those low-throttle blips, but they drive me crazy!

Do you have a Power Commander? You should be able to smooth out the flat spot and surge with a few hours of tweaking and riding. That how I tweaked the '01. Tweak, ride, tweak again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Re: Re: Hindle full system impressions

BusaDave said:


You'll get spoiled quick on the smooth throttle response. That's what I kept bitching about when I got the '02! You get used to the smooth power and you'll never be satisfied with anything else. The guys that build motors for drag racing don't seem too conccerned about those low-throttle blips, but they drive me crazy!

Do you have a Power Commander? You should be able to smooth out the flat spot and surge with a few hours of tweaking and riding. That how I tweaked the '01. Tweak, ride, tweak again.
Cheyenne, Sorry no digi camera

I have a PCIIIr. I already tweaked the map the Dynojet has for the Hindle Full System. I haven't downloded it to the biek yet and tested it. I alos messed with the ignition up top justot see if it does anything. Nothing big. +4 in the powerband @100% throttle and the tapering down across the adjacent cells.

This winter I'll have Drucker work some magic on it.

I know it's making more power, because my 6" 1st gear garbage wheelies come up a lot smoother and easier.

The sounds is nice. It's pretty quiet most of the time but has a real nice bark when you get on it.

It's funny how a louder pipe makes the bike seem to acelerate faster.

Another nice thing about the smoother throttle is my shifts are a lot smoother too. Cool shit :-
 

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Cheyenne- His Hindle pipe looks like this except his is a low mount and it's on an inferior bike:twofinger


Doc

 

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Inferior bike....:evil

I'll put the Drucker tuned F4i with a slip-on against the full jetted Ken tuned R6 anyday. :D
 

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:twofinger 1 problem with dat meat head...i dont have and didnt dyno tune his bike..it was all done by FEEL.

so :twofinger
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Odysseys said:
:twofinger 1 problem with dat meat head...i dont have and didnt dyno tune his bike..it was all done by FEEL.

so :twofinger
Hey Ken did a great job. Doc's bike only pops and crackels on deacceleration like a real racebike. :laughing

SO how can I get that popping effect and the completely gutless midrange the R6 has with the FI system on my Honda. Maybe I'll just randomly pick numbers between 1-100 to put in the boxes on the PC map and see what happens. :twofinger
 

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Midrange on a track???

BTW- It just started popping w/ the high mount.



Doc
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Doc said:
Midrange on a track???

Doc
1) Turn 1 and the Hairpin at Gratton

2) Turn 7 at BHF

3) Anytime you miss a downshift.... but that never happens.:rolleyes :p
 

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when you get the flat spot between 3000-4500 what is your throttle position?
and where is your fuel and ing at that point on the pcIIIr graff
and where are they when it smooths out at 5000 rpm's
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Couple other excuses.

1) My chain/sprocket have about 12,000 miles on them
2) In order to seal the headers to the engine I used some hi temp silicone sealant, there might still eb a little bit of "flashing" in the airflow.
3) I'm about ready for another valve job. The cams might be a little off.
4) The map I was useing, I loaded off the Dynojet website. I think it's a little lean.
5) My bike might just be a dog. Maybe the cases are misaligned or the valve seats need to be resurfaced. I never did a baseline run for comparison. The whole power curve is about 1 ft-lb down from a stock bike across the board and even flatter than normal from 11k-13k (right where peak power is made)
6) the CCT is running pretty rough. may be throwing off the cam timing. I have a manual CCT that needs ot be installed.

I played with the map on Sunday (got a ticket doing it) and richened it up almost everywhere. It's runnign a lot better now.

I'm optomistic that if I give it to Matt Drucker and he does the valve job, and makes a custom fuel/ignition map on the dyno. I can still make over 100HP


My opinon of FI now is that it's very easy to adjust, but very difficult ot adjust correctly. 1 change to the carbs has a more global effect. A change to the FI map is very specific and effect 1 particular point in the fuel delivery.

Antoher thing I thought of, what if the ECU's logic need to be changed. SOrt of liek the difference between changing the spring rate or adjusting preload on the suspension. If a aftermarket exhaust flows siginificantly different, the algorythem used ot adjust the map due ot ram air and atmospheric pressure may not be correct. You can't completely adjust for that with a Power Commander.
 

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cherrypicker said:
Antoher thing I thought of, what if the ECU's logic need to be changed. SOrt of liek the difference between changing the spring rate or adjusting preload on the suspension. If a aftermarket exhaust flows siginificantly different, the algorythem used ot adjust the map due ot ram air and atmospheric pressure may not be correct. You can't completely adjust for that with a Power Commander.
Welcome to the age old question that The Busa tuners have been trying to figure out for a long time. Best you can do is a quess. Or you can install a halmeter setup and take fuel mixture readings at speed. That would tell you if your lean or rich while running. You just have to havew a good memory or a data logging system.

Here check this out.

Link
 

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GsxrTony said:


Welcome to the age old question that The Busa tuners have been trying to figure out for a long time. Best you can do is a quess. Or you can install a halmeter setup and take fuel mixture readings at speed. That would tell you if your lean or rich while running. You just have to havew a good memory or a data logging system.

Here check this out.

Link
Actually, the Busa has two air pressure sensors, one for atmospheric pressure and one for intake air pressure so to some extent the ECU already tries to compensate for ram air.

I'm not an expert in this area because I haven't studied the schematics to see where the PC connects. My understanding is that the PCII does not have direct control of the fuel injectors and alters the fuel by altering the voltage input to the ECU from the various sensors and tricking the ECU into making the desired changes by altering the lookup in the ECUs existing maps.

Note that while the ECU has different tables based upon what gear you are in to try and compensate differently by associating the engine RPM with an intake air pressure for ram air based upon the approximate speed vs. rpm for that gear.

However, the Busa ECU also inserts a timing retard at low throttle settings in lower gears, especially below 4K rpm. So, you put on the TRE mod to eliminate the retarded timing but now you restrict the ram air compensation to the speed you would be going in 5th gear. Why 5th? Well because the ECU also restricts your speed by using the 6th gear map.

The PCIIIr provide some improvement by actually controlling the FI signal to the injectors instead of trying to fool the ECU into doing the desired thing. I don't have the details currently how this is done, but it is restricted to the sensors available.

I think it would be very interesting to sort of reverse engineer a replacement ECU module which would be ideal because you would now have complete control over the engine fuel and ignition timing. However doing this design in a design portable to many bike models would be more difficult, thus some of the design decisions resulting in the Power Commander which simply suppliments or replaces certain sensor and ECU signals but uses the stock ECU.
 

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on a pcIIIr it reads the rpm and the tps (throtle positinn sensor) and makes a graff of the two and also reads the pulse with from the ecu to the fuel injectors. ( the pulsse with is the time the fuel injector stays open could be 45 to 60 times a second i think) and then it increses the pulse with baised on the % you tell it to on the graph it does not fool the ecu it just changes the output to the fuel injectors. the ecu works the same as always
 
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