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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.socialdailynews.com/2007/10/ron-paul-is-not-being-included-in-pollsim/
Certainly not the first time I have heard this...
Between him winning polls after debates on TV which they immediately pull, Hannity claiming Paullites (is that a word?) were cheating and voting multiple times (even though you are only able to vote once per cell #)

In any case...
We are being snowed.
They know that everybody who hears this guy speak agrees with him more than the majority of the others... They also know that he would give away most of the power that the president has stolen from congress...
and distributing power amongst the states makes it a lot harder to lobby and buy off the govt.. Not to mention eliminating the IRS (where they take our money and pass it back to the large corps who lobby them) and the Fed Reserve bank...

RP would change things.. and if I was sitting on top of the house of cards.. I wouldn't want things changed either.

Current ArticleRon Paul Is Not Being Included In Polls
By admin on Oct 30, 2007 in Politics

‘Despite trailing in Polls’ seems to be the media’s description of Ron Paul in the 2008 election, and now is itself a talking point used when referencing Paul by almost every major media outlet.

His chances at becoming nominated, let alone elected president, seem to range from barely a blip on the radar at 8%, all the way down to an ‘also ran’ at 1% in national polls.

But where are they getting these statistics, and who is doing the polling?

Well, once again, media bias is neither hidden nor spun properly, even by the demagogues that pimp the information on television, radio, and in print.

If an orchestrated attempt by the national media corporations are intent on drowning Ron Paul’s campaign in a sea of lies, treachery, and media spin, then surely they must at least try to conceal their tactics. They have not.

A cursory glance of national polling data will reveal to anyone, even the most diehard supporter of corporate media’s integrity, that the mainstream polls used as statistical proof of Ron Paul’s low chances more often than not do NOT include Ron Paul in the polls.

There have been dozens of major media polls, from the largest corporations to small college campus polls, supported by marketing firms and the like, and a large percentage of these showcase what seems a concerted effort to remove Ron Paul from pollsters lips, minds, and choices.

Talking heads on FOX or MSNBC might often refer to Ron Paul as a ‘third tier’ candidate, or even a ‘dark horse’, but the comment is usually always followed with a remark about how he has no chances at winning, and the polls are cited as proof. Well, that might sound well and good.

But how many voters or concerned media watchdogs actually then go out and read these national polls? Is it possible that the mainstream media could be united in purpose in suppressing a ‘rogue’ candidate such as Ron Paul? Yes, it is.

CBS recently ran a Republican presidential poll from October 12-16, asking 1282 respondents who their pick for president would be. The poll itself opens with a description of current leaders in the race, so sets itself off with an already pre-chosen list of candidates.

Giuliani won the poll with 29% of the vote among primary Republican voters, with Thompson coming in second with 21%, and McCain coming in third with 18%.

Usual front runner Romney was listed in fourth with 12%, and Huckabee trailing the end with 8%. Ron Paul was not listed at all.

Several dozen questions were leveled at the voters polled, yet only one question in the CBS poll even mentions Ron Paul as a choice, and he was only listed as a replacement choice for the top candidates listed in all the other questions.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/CBSNews_poll_reps_101807.pdf

A combined Cook national poll from May-September was one poll that did list Paul openly along with the other candidates, but the combined poll used a pool of 4,249 voters, 3,638 of which were listed as ‘leaners’, or registered voters that are neither strongly convicted in their beliefs, and even admit to often NOT voting in elections.

http://www.cookpolitical.com/races/report_pdfs/2007 poll_tpline_sep7.pdf

A Fox News poll conducted by phone from October 9-10 asked a group of 900 registered voters who their pick for president would be. Of the Republicans, only Giuliani, Romney, Thompson, and McCain were listed as choices to run against the Democrat lead, Hillary Clinton.

Ron Paul was nowhere in sight, yet even Huckabee was listed in one of the questions, but he is also determined by the mainstream media to not be a viable candidate. If a ‘third tier’ candidate such as Huckabee was included, why not Ron Paul?

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/101707_2008_matchups_web.pdf

An NPR poll from October 4-7 bombarded voters with a slate of questions, yet only Giuliani, Thompson, Clinton, and Obama, were listed as candidate choices.

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/features/2007/oct/nprpoll/questionnaire.pdf

A George Washington University poll, done back in July, also did not list Ron Paul as a choice, though the no-show Michael Bloomberg did get a nod.

http://www.tarrance.com/11363Qper.pdf

Then of course there’s the polling roundup sites like pollingreport.com and usaelectionpolls.com that collate polling data. Of course they cite their data back to the polls that leave out Ron Paul, such as the ones described above - but hey, who’s to know?

As of September 30th numbers at Sportsbook.com, one of the leading betting and percentages site, Ron Paul is listed at having a 6-1 odds, better than all the other Republican candidates, save for Giuliani and Thompson, though their leads are but 5-1 and 4-1 compared to Ron Paul’s 6-1.

Ron Paul also currently has over $5,443,667 on hand to spend in his coffers, which is more than the all the other candidates except the ‘top tier’ media darlings Clinton, Obama, Edwards, Giuliani, Romney, and Thompson - and most of these corporately sponsored candidates have millions in their own private accounts to pull from.

Ron Paul has more youtube subscribers than any other candidate, more videos watched, more meet-up groups, more grassroots support, and more active campaigners and volunteers than any other candidate. His campaign is one based on real passion, real ideas, real solutions.

Only a coordinated effort by the mainstream media can try and shut him out before the election, and only a coordinated effort by the American people can combat media lies and put Ron Paul where he deserves: in the white house!

AAPOR Code of Professional Ethics and Practices

http://ethics.iit.edu/codes/coe/amer.assoc.public.opinion.researchers.1970.html

1. We shall employ only research tools and methods of analysis which, in our professional judgment, are well suited to the research problem at hand.

2. We shall not select research tools and methods of analysis because of their special capacity to yield a desired conclusion.

3. We shall not knowingly make interpretations of research results, nor shall we tacitly permit interpretations, which are inconsistent with the data available.

4. We shall not knowingly imply that interpretations should be accorded greater confidence than the data actually warrant
 

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Defiantly agree with you guys. I never thought I'd support a republican untill i heard a few of his debated and speeches and he stands up for what he beleives in regardless if people don't want to hear it. (aka his stance on iraq)
 

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He would absolutely be my choice from the Republican side and at the moment my overall pick. Unfortunately the candidate that most of us should vote for is always going to finish in last place.
 

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Why sound mad about it? If you like him, in the long run it is probably a good thing. Realize there is no way a Republican is going to win unless the Dems totally mess up. If he becomes the Rep front runner, there will not be a real chance for him to be a candidate in 2012. The party will not back a looser. The best thing for him is to gather a base for a 2012 run. The Dems will be cleaning up after the mess GW created for at least the next term and people will not be happy no matter what they do. He should gear up for the 2012 run and skip this one.

Personally, I've looked at him and have mixed feelings. IMO, from what I know he is one of the better Republicans out there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Why sound mad about it? If you like him, in the long run it is probably a good thing. Realize there is no way a Republican is going to win unless the Dems totally mess up. If he becomes the Rep front runner, there will not be a real chance for him to be a candidate in 2012. The party will not back a looser. The best thing for him is to gather a base for a 2012 run. The Dems will be cleaning up after the mess GW created for at least the next term and people will not be happy no matter what they do. He should gear up for the 2012 run and skip this one.

Personally, I've looked at him and have mixed feelings. IMO, from what I know he is one of the better Republicans out there.
He is 72 years old right now....
I agree with you on that... but it's a wrong move.. a lot of this crap started on the Dems watch.. everyone just hopped the fence and went over to republican side because they were sick of Clinton.. (who in hindsight doesn't seem as bad.. but lets not act like the only issues that guy had were a bj and a lie about it)
but the collective memory of the US is pretty short...

Most Dems even agree for the most part with RP.. Even more than with billary (not gonna harsh Obama.. Really.. Don't know enough about him to really bash him... Where the hell did he come from anyway?... He came from "never heard of" to "front runner" like.. out of frickin nowhere...

like i said before...
the powers that be decide our choices...
the people get
choose A from this column.. or B from that...
Those are the choices we are giving you.

America is pissed off enough this time.. Who knows.. We might actually have a 3rd option.
 

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Sorry, I respectfully disagree with you. There are always problems, but the real "crap" started with GW and his manipulative, abusive and secretive admin. He and Cheney truely think the president and the executive branch is above the law. We had a great economic run with Clinton. Anything else is Republican revisionistic history. We now have a president that BKed any business he was ever ran. We have more inside pork barrel contracts then ever. Clinton had issues, but was one of the smartest men to ever hold the office. GW is at best a deluded fool, has lead the country to the edge of economic collapse, and embroiled us in a war we can not win. Further, the entire Republican party stood by and cheered as he did it. No matter what, it is time for a change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Sorry, I respectfully disagree with you. There are always problems, but the real "crap" started with GW and his manipulative, abusive and secretive admin. He and Cheney truely think the president and the executive branch is above the law. We had a great economic run with Clinton. Anything else is Republican revisionistic history. We now have a president that BKed any business he was ever ran. We have more inside pork barrel contracts then ever. Clinton had issues, but was one of the smartest men to ever hold the office. GW is at best a deluded fool, has lead the country to the edge of economic collapse, and embroiled us in a war we can not win. Further, the entire Republican party stood by and cheered as he did it. No matter what, it is time for a change.
Agree 100% that Bush is the worst president that we have ever had... Well from as much as I know (may have been worse.. before people knew so much.. but I doubt it)
Also agree that Clinton was probably the smartest person to hold office...
I do remember that every time they went after him for something.. He bombed something (a pharma plant.. a school.. what else?)
I also remember that many (statistical anomoly?) of his friends ended up killing themselves or dying in wierd plane crashes... not since the Buddy Holly have so many people connected to one person died of plane crashes
http://www.zpub.com/un/un-bc-body.html (googled "clinton plane crashes" to find that link.. took about 2 seconds.. that was top one.. there were many more)
Personally I think both sides are serving the same agenda...
I know that is probably crazy conspiracy.. blah blah blah shit...

If I remember right.. Clinton was the one who was selling us out to the Chinese.. right?

Clinton wasn't perfect... His wife... well.. she is kind of a bitch. (admittedly.. not a stupid one.. she is a very smart bitch)

Actually.. one important question..
This thread was about Ron Paul

Do you think Hillary would make a better president than Ron Paul?


BTW... Hope I don't come off as combative.. I basically agree with you 90+%
I just think RP is the better candidate.. and I think GB got the majority of the votes he did because the public was just about done with Bill... and they saw Al as just another member of Bills team..
It was a mistake for everyone to think that.. I dont think they realized how bad it could get...
We went from giving a president hell for "not inhaling" to a cokehead alky... who used to smoke pot too.



BTW... To save people clicking the link.. Here is the page.. Go to the link for pictures and prettier formatting.... I admit.. this is might be right wing swift boating bullshit.. but I remember reading about this stuff 10 years ago.. and wanted a refresher.. since I only remembered Ron Brown, Foster and a bunch of other people.....


The Clinton Body Count


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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A number of people connected to Bill Clinton have turned up dead.

James McDougal - Clinton's convicted Whitewater partner died of an apparent heart attack, while in solitary confinement. He was a key witness in Ken Starr's investigation. Was James McDougal Murdered In A Federal Prison To Silence Him?

Ron Brown - Secretary of Commerce and former DNC Chairman. Reported to have died by impact in a plane crash. A pathologist close to the investigation reported that there was a hole in the top of Brown's skull resembling a gunshot wound. At the time of his death Brown was being investigated, and spoke publicly of his willingness to cut a deal with prosecutors.
The Botched Ron Brown Investigation
An Interview with AFIP Forensic Photographer Kathleen Janoski
by Wesley Phelan
Vince Foster - Former white House councelor, and colleague of Hillary Clinton at Little Rock's Rose law firm. Died of a gunshot wound to the head, ruled a suicide. Snippets From The Vince Foster Death Investigation
Mary Mahoney - A former White House intern was murdered July 1997 at a Starbucks Coffee Shop in Georgetown. The murder happened just as she was to go public with her story of sexual harassment in the White House.
Mary C. Mahoney and Eric Butera

Was this just a robbery gone bad? - See: Starbucks Suspect Faces Host of Charges By Bill Miller Washington Post, August 5, 1999



C. Victor Raiser II - & - Montgomery Raiser: Major players in the Clinton fund raising organization died in a private plane crash in July 1992.

Paul Tulley - Democratic National Committee Political Director found dead in a hotel room in Little Rock, September 1992. Described by Clinton as a "Dear friend and trusted advisor".

Ed Willey - Clinton fund raiser, found dead November 1993 deep in the woods in Virginia of a gunshot wound to the head. Ruled a suicide. Ed Willey died on the same day his wife Kathleen Willey claimed Bill Clinton groped her in the oval office in the White House. Ed Willey was involved in several Clinton fund raising events.

Jerry Parks - Head of Clinton's gubernatorial security team in Little Rock. Gunned down in his car at a deserted intersection outside Little Rock. Park's son said his father was building a dossier on Clinton. He allegedly threatened to reveal this information. After he died the files were mysteriously removed from his house.

James Bunch - Died from a gunshot suicide. It was reported that he had a "Black Book" of people containing names of influential people who visited prostitutes in Texas and Arkansas.

James Wilson - Was found dead in May 1993 from an aparent hanging suicide. He was reported to have ties to Whitewater.

Kathy Ferguson - Ex-wife of Arkansas Trooper Danny Ferguson died in May 1994 was found dead in her living roon with a gunshot to her head. It was ruled a suicide even though there were several packed suitcases, as if she was going somewhere. Danny Ferguson was a co-defendant along with Bill Clinton in the Paula Jones lawsuit. Kathy Ferguson was a possible corroborating witness for Paula Jones.

Bill Shelton - Arkansas state Trooper and fiancee of Kathy Ferguson. Critical of the suicide ruling of his fiancee, he was found dead in June, 1994 of a gunshot wound also ruled a suicide at the gravesite of his fiancee.

Gandy Baugh - Attorney for Clinton friend Dan Lassater died by jumping out a window of a tall building January, 1994. His client was a convicted drug distributor.

Florence Martin - Accountant - Sub-contractor for the CIA related to the Barry Seal Mena Airport drug smuggling case. Died of three gunshot wounds.

Suzanne Coleman - Reportedly had an affair with Clinton when he was Arkansas Attorney General. Died of a gunshot wound to the back of the head, ruled a suicide. Was pregnant at the time of her death.

Paula Grober - Clinton's speech interpreter for the deaf from 1978 until her death December 9, 1992. She died in a one car accident.

Danny Casolaro - Investigative reporter. Investigating Mena Airport and Arkansas Development Finance Authority. He slit his wrists, apparent suicide in the middle of his investigation.

Paul Wilcher - Attorney investigating corruption at Mena Airport with Casolaro and the 1980 "October Surprise" was found dead on a toilet June 22, 1993 in his Washington DC apartment. Had delivered a report to Janet Reno 3 weeks before his death.

Jon Parnell Walker - Whitewater investigator for Resolution Trust Corp. Jumped to his death from his Arlington, Virginia apartment balcony August 15,1993 Was investigating Morgan Guarantee scandal.

Barbara Wise - Commerce Department staffer. Worked closely with Ron Brown and John Huang. Cause of death unknown. Died November 29, 1996. Her bruised nude body was found locked in her office at the Department of Commerce.

Charles Meissner - Assistant Secretary of Commerce who gave John Huang special security clearance, died shortly thereafter in a small plane crash.

Dr. Stanley Heard - Chairman of the National Chiropractic Health Care Advisory Committee died with his attorney Steve Dickson in a small plane crash. Dr. Heard, in addition to serving on Clinton's advisory council personally treated Clinton's mother, stepfather and brother.

Barry Seal - Drug running pilot out of Mena Arkansas, Death was no accident.

Johnny Lawhorn Jr. - Mechanic, found a check made out to Clinton in the trunk of a car left in his repair shop. Died when his car hit a utility pole.

Stanley Huggins - Suicide. Investigated Madison Guarantee. His report was never released.

Hershell Friday - Attorney and Clinton fund raiser died March 1, 1994 when his plane exploded.

Kevin Ives & Don Henry - Known as "The boys on the track" case. Reports say the boys may have stumbled upon the Mena arkansas airport drug operation. Controversal case where initial report of death was due to falling asleep on railroad track. Later reports claim the 2 boys had been slain before being placed on the tracks. Many linked to the case died before their testimony could come before a Grand Jury. see: The Train Deaths - plus some comments from a mother of one of the boys about the connection to Bill Clinton..

THE FOLLOWING SEVEN PERSONS HAD INFORMATION ON THE IVES / HENRY CASE:
Keith Coney - Died when his motorcycle slammed into the back of a truck July, 1988

Keith McMaskle - Died stabbed 113 times, Nov, 1988

Gregory Collins - Died from a gunshot wound January 1989.

Jeff Rhodes - He was shot, mutilated and found burned in a trash dump in April 1989.

James Milan - Found decapitated. Coroner ruled death due to natural causes.

Jordan Kettleson - Was found shot to death in the front seat of his pickup truck in June 1990.

Richard Winters - Was a suspect in the Ives / Henry deaths. Was killed in a set-up robbery July 1989.

THE FOLLOWING CLINTON BODYGUARDS ARE DEAD
Major William S. Barkley Jr.
Captain Scott J. Reynolds
Sgt. Brian Hanley
Sgt. Tim Sabel
Major General William Robertson
Col. William Densberger
Col. Robert Kelly
Spec. Gary Rhodes
Steve Willis
Robert Williams
Conway LeBleu
Todd McKeehan
Source for above: "Steven Levine" [[email protected]]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


More deaths connected to Clinton and his Administration ...



Chinese journalists killed in the bombing on May 8, 1999 of the Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia
(left to right): Shao Yunhuan, of Xinhua News Agency, Xu Xinghu and his wife, Zhu Ying, reporters at Guangming Daily. [NATO bombed the Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia]

76 deaths as a result of the government siege on the Branch Davidians coumpound at Waco Texas. [Waco Holocaust Electronic Museum: Death]
April 19, 1995 - bombing of the federal building in Oklahoma City results in the death of 168 people
Yugoslav civilian death toll estimated at 500 to 2000 in 78 days of Nato bombing of Yugoslavia [24 March and 10 June 1999] - Clinton said he supported NATO bombing of Serb television stations, despite criticism from some NATO allies who believe these are civilian targets. "Serb television is an essential instrument of Mr. Milosevic's command and control," Clinton said. Clinton Urges Patience With NATO Bombing Campaign - Washington Post April 25, 1999
Links: NATO bombing of Yugoslavia and its aftermath
Iraq .. the total death toll in Iraq from bombing and sanctions is put at between 1.2 and 1.7 million people. It is now of the five greatest genocides of the 20th century, with the number of casualties rivalling that of Pol Pot’s Cambodia.
A chronology of sanctions on Iraq 1990 - 2000
 

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Some of the Ron Paul people are more annoying than reformed alcoholics. Enough already.

After reading more about him. It sounds like he wants to put me out of work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Some of the Ron Paul people are more annoying than reformed alcoholics. Enough already.

After reading more about him. It sounds like he wants to put me out of work.
School teacher eh?
Yeah...
I have always thought that was one of his flaws...
That said.. I liked the fact that he doesn't want to much power.. He basically wants to give all of the recent power grab ... err powers.. back to congress...

Something like that would never happen..
I have even heard him say it.. That he doesn't think govt should be in the business of educating children and teaching morals (abstinence ed etc) ... but he knows that things like that dont just change in a short time.

i think the RP supporters are gung ho.. because they see someone who is looking out for the US's interests.. and then they see.. some asshat who turns around and says 9/11 for every reason for everything (the asshole answered a phone call during a speech.. from his wife.. and said he did it because of 9 fucking 11... ) I still don't see what he did on 9/11 that was so great.. walked around and talked to reporters? Why wasnt his ass running in and saving people.. oh yea.. that was the firefighters.. and police.. on sep frequencies.. and they did all of the dying.. during and after 9/11.. and he turned his back on all of them... shit.. their radios couldnt even talk to eachother... in any case.. back to my point..

you have one guy talking about the constitution and personal freedoms and everything people want to hear.. he gets no press.. big business doesnt want him...
on the other hand
you have some fear mongering inbreeder... who tells us if we vote democrat there will be another 9/11.. (wait.. we have only had 1 so far.. and it was on his watch... wouldn't that make him uniquely unqualified?) and he gets all of the press...

So I think the RP supporters do more supporting because they realize .. if they don't do it.. get the word out.. and rely on the system to do it.. it's not gonna happen..

most of the money collected by the IRS is pumped right back into large corporations for work and subsidies.. think they want to see that go away?
 

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That he doesn't think govt should be in the business of educating children and teaching morals (abstinence ed etc) ... but he knows that things like that dont just change in a short time.
Well by default they are because where I work nobody else is going to do it.
 

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Oh shoot, Explorer burped and lost my response. OK one more time and a little shorter...

Having a mean smart bitch in office might not be a bad thing. Hillary has loads of savvy and experience. RP has been a backwater guy in and out of politics. I also find his views at times quite unpractical, inflexible and too conservative. I also disagree on some of his thoughts on economics. To be the head of state, you need the ability to negotiate and compromise with both parties to get anything done. I believe Hillary would do that better. I'm also tired of ultra conservative Republicans telling us how to live and running the country. This gang, has clearly demonstrated that they will abuse the power. Right or wrong I look at RP in that light. Also, I don't want to be accused of reverse age discrimination, but starting the job at age 73 doesn't sit well with me. Being the President at any time isn't easy and during a war is a very demanding job. If you are worried about him running in another 4-5 years, I'd be worried now too. Finally I'm very pro choice. Between the 2 I believe that Hillary would make a better Prez.

BTW, I'm happy to talk about RP and the current election, but you brought up Slick Willie and the crap he left over for GW. Oh, IMO no you are not combative at all. Your thoughts are well measured and thought out. I just disagree. I hope you view me in the same light.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Well by default they are because where I work nobody else is going to do it.
Referral Denied
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Reference #24.9d205640.1193960222.13f5686


your linky is brokey
 

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You don't have permission to access "/L/1969/8382/7d/cdn-i.imdb.com/Photos/Events/4513/AdamWest_Grant_7894112_400.jpg" on this server.
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your linky is brokey
Should not have been a link I was quoting you.

Sorry
 

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Hillary has loads of savvy and experience.
And she went to my high school.

But in all seriousness, the republican party really doesn't have anyone to run. Ron Paul isn't really a viable candidate as nobody really knows about him. I'm not sure if Fred Thompson is actually running, he is pretty good at hiding that fact. Do you really want Guiliani to be president? Every other word out of his mouth is 9/11 and he really doesn't have much substance. I don't think he was a very good mayor in New York either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Woah...
Couple big pieces of news...
Not going to link em.. but it looks like RP made about 3 mil today...
WOW.
and in other news...
Check out this Bloomberg ad...
I really don't know what to say about it... other than... Think Mr B has seen it?

<div>
<br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3cz1u_gender-bender">Gender Bender</a></b><br /><i>Uploaded by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/bloombergwhitehouse">bloombergwhitehouse</a></i></div>
 
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