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HDTony

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Unfortunately, I didn't write this so its not my finances they are talking about. It's from Radley Balko, but it expresses my thoughts exactly.


A curious thing happened when I filed my income taxes this year. I discovered that I'm filthy rich.

How do I know? Because the deduction I’m supposed to get for the interest I pay on my student loans phases out for "top earners." This year, under former President Clinton’s tax code, that deduction began phasing out for me. This means I’m rich.

I'm rich! My first inclination was to call up every ex-girlfriend I've ever had and let her know she missed her chance. After all, I’ll be dating supermodels soon. I broke out the Cockburn's 20-year Tawny Port, poured it carelessly (I can afford to spill now!), and split a snifter with my driver. I told my chef to fire up some filets and invite his family over for dinner — on me. I lit a fresh Macanudo with a rolled up, flaming $20 bill. I can do these things now. Because I'm rich.

I'm kidding, of course. In reality, I just came out of forbearance on one of my student loans. I still rent my house. When I do have a driver, it's only for ten or fifteen minutes, and my limo is usually yellow, with a lamp on top. My chef is always asking me if I want to make that a value meal. Still, according to the tax code, I'm "rich."

A new study by the Tax Foundation casts some light on the absurdities of the concept of "wealthy." During the fight over President Bush's tax plan last year, Democrats, you may remember, harangued the president as a man too sympathetic to the wealthy. As it turns out, wealthy is a fairly relative term, and the reason why the wealthy get the brunt of most Republican-sponsored tax breaks is because — get ready for this — the wealthy pay the brunt of the taxes.

In 1999, the richest 1 percent of Americans took in 19.5 percent of the income. But they paid 36.2 percent of the taxes. The figures are similar for the top 5 percent, who made 34 percent of the money but paid 55 percent of the taxes. So much for rich people escaping taxes with sneaky loopholes, sleazy accountants and offshore shelters.

Want to bust more stereotypes? The income cutoff for the richest 5 percent is just over $120,000. In a good-sized city, a college graduate in his late twenties could probably expect to make about $60,000 per year. If two people making this much money get married, they'd find themselves in the top 5 percent of income earners — the filthy rich. These aren't trust fund babies. They’re Gen-Xers from the suburbs with a bachelor's degree.

The top 25 percent of income earners (and this would include those same two Gen-Xers if they didn't get married) pay a whopping 83.5 percent of U.S. taxes. In contrast, the bottom half of income earners — that's 50 percent of all taxpayers — bear just 4 percent of the tax burden, while earning 13 percent of the income.

Anyway you slice it, rich Americans are paying far more than their share.

So when Democrats say that the latest Republican tax cut "only benefits the wealthy," we need to do two things. First, we need to remember just who the wealthy really are. Wealthy no longer necessarily means the aristocratic Louis Winthorpe III, Dan Akroyd’s riches-to-rags blueblood in Trading Places. Today, wealthy, as defined by the IRS, probably means the 28-year-old public relations account executive sitting next to you on the subway.

Second, we need to employ a little logic. If the richest Americans are bearing a huge chunk of the tax burden, then any sizable tax cut will, necessarily, disproportionately benefit the richest Americans.

Opponents of tax cuts also usually include the poorest Americans in their figures, who pay no income taxes at all. A tax break for someone who pays no taxes is in some places called free money.

Another nasty figure from Tax Foundation study shows that the tax gap is growing. The richest 1 percent paid just 19 percent of the total tax burden in 1980. As noted above, they now pay 36 percent.

This is cause for concern. When 50 percent of Americans pay just 4 percent of the taxes, what sort of tax policies do you think they’re going to endorse on Election Day? Egged on by Democrat demagoguery, the tax burden will likely continue to shift to the upper brackets, which will create even bigger gaps. It’s possible that, in the words of Sen. Barbara Milkulski, we’ll keep "going and getting it from those who’ve got it" until we drive our economy straight into the ground.

This is the sort of majority tyranny factionalism our more thoughtful founding fathers feared. In summarizing the argument of those concerned with factions, James Madison wrote in Federalist No. 10, "... measures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the fights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority."

For now, the majority’s interest is partially offset by the fact that wealthier people are more likely to vote. But as both parties fight for the loyalty of the middle class with tax credits, the tax burden will continue to climb the income ladder.

At the same time, politicians are wooing other loyalties with promises of more government services. Someone has to pay for all this. Increasingly, those people are our society’s most wealthy. And every dollar they pay in taxes is a dollar less they invest in job and wealth creation. It hurts them now. It’ll hurt all of us later.
 
I just finished reading this article. I have a feeling that most Americans think 'rich' people only live in Hollywood and are in the movies or the music industry. Not so! Rich can be your neighbors or relatives. Rich people go to the ball game with you. Rich people ride the train with you. I always considered rich folks as making $500k a year or more but according to tax statistics and tax codes that just is not the case. The quote in the article by James Madison is more true today than it even was when he spoke those words....Good info Tony!!
 
Hmmm. I wonder how the massive loss of jobs contributes to that gap?

Maybe when I have some time I'll gather some numbers to further illustrate the popularly quoted 5% of downtrodden who pay this high percentage of total taxes.

It's probably a good 2-3 hours of research to gather and synthesize the numbers in the proper context.

Everything presented is probably correct, or close but a lot of the context that allows a certain conclusion is missing. That's typically called proof by omission.

Do I consider myself rich? Not really, but if I take a drive in my Z06 through rural and small-town America and pay attention, I would have to say I'm pretty darn well off.
 
without taking a lot of things into consideration... lifestyle etc

What do you guys consider RICH? How much $$ a year?
 
2weelpilot said:
without taking a lot of things into consideration... lifestyle etc

What do you guys consider RICH? How much $$ a year?
To me I think $100-200,000 a year household income is well-off. I think starting to get over this your talking Rich!!!
 
Brian said:
Not too long ago, if you were single, making 50k a year you were in the top 5% of wage earners. That is rich in my book.
My God.....that's rich?????? you couldn't barely purchase and support a $175,000 house on that salary.:confused and lets face it. You don't get much for $175k anymore.
 
2weelpilot said:
without taking a lot of things into consideration... lifestyle etc

What do you guys consider RICH? How much $$ a year?
I'm probably pretty far off on this but I always thought of RICH as anything over a million. Filthy rich would be anything over 10 million. Obscenely rich would be anything over 100 Million.
 
TZDeSioux said:
I'm probably pretty far off on this but I always thought of RICH as anything over a million. Filthy rich would be anything over 10 million. Obscenely rich would be anything over 100 Million.
are you talkin' net worth or salary?:confused :confused
 
100k with a family of 5 doesn't buy ya much nowadays.:p I can hardly afford the gas for my aiplane anymore.:(


Oooops......:evil
 
TZDeSioux said:
One's annual income. It doesn't have to come in the form of a salary does it?

Nope it doesn't. I just wanted to clarify.:D
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
When I think rich I think mid to high 6 figure income. 7 figures is wealthy.

Just goes to show you how he media and dem speakers are using this tax break for the rich stuff to thier advantage. I wish they would use actual numbers instead of relying on labels.
 
I dont think making it to 6 figures as a family income is being considered rich. If youre alone and have that to yourself I suppose you can have a much better lifestyle than if you were married or have kiddos.

To be considered rich in my book Id say you need to make a 1/4 mil a year minimum.
 
I'm glad the rich pay a good majority of the taxes...nothing wrong with it.

And you know Bush is pushing for tax cuts for the rich so he can get his pockets lined. If anyone thinks any politician does something for soley the good of society....you are naive.
 
TerminatorR1 said:
I'm glad the rich pay a good majority of the taxes...nothing wrong with it.

Yeah, there is something wrong with it. A couple of points come to mind ...

When you have more money than what is needed to provide adequate food, shelter, clothing, savings, you are able to spend money in other segments of the economy. Furthermore, the "rich" often times have their own business/business interests, so they create jobs. Over-taxation would/could go a long way in taking the incentive out of running a business. No business=no jobs=no economy.

The rich are punished far too often. I'm all for a flat tax 15% across the board.
 
Let's sat someone making $200K gets taxed 40%. That equals $120,000 after taxes......if they can't survive on $120,000/year, I dont feel sorry for them.

But lets say someone who makes $50,000/year gets taxed 40%..that equals $30,000 to live on.....which is not a lot. So I think people who make less need to be taxed less, so they can survive.
 
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