[HDTony]

I Agree w/ Dr. D completely on this.

Shocking




Americans have every right to wave thier flag. this is America. if an illegal alien doesnt like it, too bad, this isnt an anti mexican thing so its not racism, this is an anti illegal alien thing, hence an anti criminal thing.

 

[HDTony]

Ouch. No wonder the terrorists hate us so much. I was always taught America was the melting pot. Where it was OK to be proud of your heritage while at the same time being a proud American. Where religion was between a man and his God. Where all men are created equal. I guess Americans are created superior.

When I go back to visit Cambodia, I tell my people, I'm Cambodian by birth and American by CHOICE.

Unless your an arab country who wants to invest in american terminals in our ports, then that goes out the window.

 

[HDTony]

Have we gotten so PC we are going to file assault charges for waving a flag at someone, and hurting thier feelings? give me a friggin break. PC crap!


this country was a lot better off when feelings and sensitivity took a back seat to patriotism

 

[HDTony]

Normally, I would not entertain this discussion but some clear thinking must prevail at some point.
Arch, your remark relative to baseball compared to an official national symbol is just plain wrong. The U.S. flag is not a tradition. Traditions do not compare to legislated symbols of our nation. Your comparison is like comparing potatoe pancakes to the constitution.

The use and display of the U.S. flag is documented. There are printed flag ethics involved.

That said, misuse of our flag should be dealt with appropriately not banned.
If I were to wave the U.S. flag out of the window of my car as I pass by chinatown, what is the problem? If I were to come within inches of a persons face in an effort to intimidate, then I can see some issues. Not banning.
As a free nation, we have both the right to display our national symbol and the responsability to do that appropriately.
Personnally, I respect the flags of all free nations when displayed appropriately. When used to symbolize an allegence to illegal behavior, such as illegal immigration, I think the provocation to counter displays need to be considered. My thought is not who "punched first", more who's intent was to subvert our laws and constitution.

Excellent post.

 

[HDTony]

I don't believe the Mexican flag was being used to specifically "symbolize an allegence to illegal behavior" as you suggest.

If it was being done in response to the pending legislation about illegals then I would say that it was done to "symbolize an allegence to illegal behavior". As being an illegal alien is still illegal. this whole amnesty proposal is a joke, it didnt work in 86 and it wont work now, all it does is say fine, break the law come here, we wont prosecute you in fact we will reward you for it. wrong message to be sending.

 

[HDTony]

Oh please... It couldn't possibly be because they think their ethnic group is simply getting sh!t on...

How many were out saying "I pledge allegence to the breaking of laws..." ?

*snip*

"When the immigration laws came out we noticed that a lot of Hispanics were waving Mexican flags and what we were thinking to ourselves is like, isn't the immigration law to stay in the country? You want to stay in America, correct? So I said, for every Mexican flag, you should have an American flag right next to it. So a few people went out and started waving American flags, and that's where everything bridged out," said Skyline student R.J. Fogal.

Wow, who would have predicted it would escalate things?

Well clearly we need to all sit down and ask them about thier feelings and hold thier hand to make sure they are not feeling picked on.

Not enough Cock and Balls in this world anymore. bunch a nancy's out there. Waaaaaaaaaaa they dont like illegals, waaaaaaaaaaaaa

its tough out there and not everything is fair, we grew up that way and we are fine. Everyone needs to grow a pair.

 

[HDTony]

yes and if they are illegal, they do not have the right under the constitution to assembly or protest. they dont have any rights, but maybe whats under the geneva convention as they are invading the US.

 

[HDTony]

but you can understand how such a thing would anger Americans.

I wouldnt be so sure of that :laughing

 

[HDTony]

hubris and spinelessness (is that a real word?).

Which one? :laughing

 

[HDTony]

I find it funny when political debates talk about laws and legality - kind of an oxymoron. The definition of polticals should be "figuring out how to break the law and gain popular opinion while doing it" Seriously, politics is the science of breaking the law and getting people to congratulate you for it.

That being said, this issue of illegal immigration...
To call it illegal is not a real description of the situation. They are more refugees than illegal immigrants.

In addtion, our government knowingly and willfully let these people into our country as "economic assets".

So this being said, how does it affect the situation?

They are not refugees.

ref·u·gee Audio pronunciation of "refugee" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rfy-j)
n.

One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution.

Invading our country to send all thier money back home does not constitute refugee's, especially when they come here int he summers, make thier money and go home and live like Kings for the winters.

 

[HDTony]

Just becasue everyone is doing it doesnt make it less illegal. try that excuse in court :laughing


And thats what we should be pissed about. http://www.weneedafence.com/

 

[HDTony]

I got an idea, if they dont want to be in mexico, lets accomodate them. when we catch an illegal, who says we have to send them to thier home country? we have C-130's leaving for Iraq every day. put them on those planes. if they want to be illegals, they dont have to do it here.

 

[HDTony]

You are thinking one generation too early.
Why send them to war when we have plenty of work for them to do here on US soil? It is the sons and daughters of illegals that fight in the military.

No I'm thinking there is no consequenses for breaking that law, and I'm not saying send them over there to fight. just send them there, if they dont want to be in mexico they dont have to be here. I am a son of immigrants, of course my family came here legally and worked thier ass off to do so. my grandfather came here 2 years before his wife and children to make a life for them and do it right. Letting a bunch of law breakers stay just becasue some people dont want to loose the mexican vote is just a smak in the face to his hard work to make a better life for his family.

 

[HDTony]

Now see, based on your background, I would have thought you would have more sympathy than disgust for these people.

Nope, because my family followed the rules. Yes it was long, tedious, and very hard. They came over on a boat from Italy, my grandfather and grandmother did not see each other for those two years, he did not see his children for those two years. He worked long back breaking days as a laborer to make enough money to get them a house, car and everything else to give his kids the American dream. They never just snuck across a border, then throw thier kids in american schools while not paying taxs to support those schools. and never took welfare or public aid. They came here, learned the language, worked and made a life for themselves and contributed to this country and became very proud Americans.

Thats why I can say I have a problem with illegal aliens being given a free pass. They are not blocked from coming here, they just dont want to go through the long and hard process of coming here legally so they just jump the border.

 

[HDTony]

How do you fill out a form when you don't have an address?

If you live in a box or a shanty town, what do you put down for your address?

These poeple have nothing, nothing but the clothes on their back. They have less than your parents did.

My grandparents and my dad lived in a dirt floor hut in the mountians of Italy if you must know. believe me they didnt have anything. It took a lot of time to save up the money from farming just to get the boat ride here, enter ellis island and take the appropriate steps to become a citizen. then do whatever it took to make a life here. and save enough money to bring the family over and take them through the same process.

We should not be giving the American dream away to anyone, it should be worked for. and worked hard for. if anyone wants to come here through the appropriate channels, get visa and work permits then apply for citizenship, hey thats great more power to ya. but doing it illegally I have a problem with.

when my dad finnaly came here he worked as a waiter at the Italian Village downtown for years while going to school learning that language, and eventually graduating from Uof I.


I never got to meet my grandfather, as he died a few days after I was born. I only know of his struggles through the stories I was told as a child. when I hear of someone coming here arogantly and saying "hey I'm here already, you gotta let me stay becasue I made it here without getting arrested at the border" it really pisses me off. and the fact that they are not saying that in the common language of this country really pisses me off.

 

[HDTony]

Wow, I didn't know WE owned it to withhold it.

Yet again you never get my point. I'm glad I didnt type all of that for just you to read or it really would have been a waste of time.



And to answer your point, (not sure why I'm even bothering as you will never agree with me) no, no one owns it, its here for the taking, but not for the stealing.

 

[HDTony]

I'll add the other tidbit of information that's making the waters all cloudy. What's really at issue is the Security bill which will change the status of current illegal immigrants into FELONS, thereby the chance ever becoming legal goes to 0.

Currently, they can go through legal means to become citizens. This would shut the door basically forever with a stroke of the pen.

Again, please feel free to chime in and offer another interpretation of the various pieces of legislation in play.

cant do the time dont do the crime. Go home and do it right.

 

[HDTony]

Through the Asylum/Refugee process.
They would fail to qualify to begin the process if their presence is now classified as a 'Felony'.

well then it sounds great. they broke the law, get them out of here, so the ones who are trying to do it legally can come in and take thier jobs.

 

[HDTony]

WHat are you thinking here? Where is the logic?



Let me tell you first hand about this.........at my wife's work place the illegals use false identification and then they claim the max like 14 (i think). This way they have VERY little to nothing taken out of their paycheck. They obviously DO NOT file taxes so the supposed tax they get hit with goes into the system DOES NOT EXIST!!!!

They are illegal for one reason or another.........BUT yet the same outcome.,

I had a Day Porter working for me for 9 years who we did not know was an illegal. He made roughly $10.00 an hour. He loved it. Every time "suspicion " was arroused he would change his last name. Since he started working for me he would tell me "I just bought another home in Mexico!" By the time he finally got caught he owned 4 houses AND an apartment building in Mexico. Not bad for a day porter. He would brag about how he has enough money to retire like a king back home! He was 37!!! 3 years ago he said he saved enough to buy a small farm (with all his other properties as well) and was ready to go home. waited to get caught for the free plane ticket and 2 months later he was gone......... He beat the system, he was happy, and no.....he did not pay ANY taxes except when he went to the store.....

So again i ask...........

+1 we used to own a large commercial bakery in Franklin park, all the mexicans we had working there, had full ID's and appeared to be all legal, but I did find it odd that they all had the same last name and address. Hmmmmmm

 

[HDTony]

Cool, so you (plural) admittingly hired people you pretty much knew were not on the up and up. And we cast the blame on the workers? What about the employers?

nope they were there when we bought the place. only owned it for a year, turned around and sold it for a profit.